I don't know the quality on the cheap ones. Hoping someone here has some pointers. All the preamp does is convert analog to digital, right? Is there that big of a variance on that type of process (quality-wise)?

The original question is does the quality of your turntable, receiver, speakers, etc, warrant paying more for a preamp? Because if it's all low-end stuff, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between a $40 and a $100. If you do have decent equipment, I'd suggest heading over to Needle Doctor in St. Louis Park if not to buy one, but to get some helpful suggestions. Or you could simply read some blogs/product reviews.

I put on that Ortofon cartridge yesterday evening and it's making all my records sound more vibrant and detailed. And the 12" subwoofer I bought is rounding out the bottom end very nicely.

Just throwing this out there, but if you want to digitize your vinyl see about getting one with a USB out. I love having one on mine. Could increase the price though; so decide if that's important to you or not.

I just made my hockey puck record clamp.
The rubber puck innards fit snugly on the spindle and secure the record to the table.
So it works more as a clamp than a weight.
Whether or not any of this makes a difference has yet to be determined.

Irregardless, its a pretty fucking cool idea. Keep us posted on how it works out.

Finally looked mine up. NAD PP3. Came with software for converting to digital.

I've done a few test runs. The low end sounds tighter/punchier with more separation of deep tones and a little more kick drum punchiness.
And when the mixes on records tend to get layered and muddied I can hear the separation of buried instruments a little more clearly.
There's no difference from what I can tell in the top end.
So far it seems like a worthwhile tweak.

Coolness. Love shit like that.

So, I'm in the market for a good but cheap turntable for my living room.

Any recs?

I have built ins that can hold my vinyl (behind glass doors, looks really nice) and an area to put a turntable so I'm looking for something aesthetically pleasing as well. I have an Onkyo receiver that is currently powering surround sound speakers for the tv so I'm assuming I can hook the turntable up to it and play it through an auxillary channel?

Would like to stay at about $100 or under but could be talked into going higher.

Been looking at Technics, Audio Technica, Numark. Found some pretty looking Crosley's but most of what I've read has been that they generally suck.

Does your Onkyo have a ground wire input? It's hard to find digital receivers that do.

It seems that used is the way to go since most well-known electronics brands that built turntables from the mid-70's through early 80's that don't utilize P-mount cartridges are pretty solid. I priced out turntables on craigslist and ebay; and researched specific models by reading audio geek threads that came up via Google searches. I got a pretty good idea of the going prices for solid turntables and jumped at the opportunity to get my Technics when it was selling for much less than the rest of the market.

I also prefer direct drive models since they typically have heavy metal platters that reduce surface noise. The addition of a subwoofer to my bookshelf and floor loudspeakers made a huge difference in sound quality as well. It's always useful to factor in the price of a new cartridge or stylus if a new/usable one isn't included since an entry level cartridge will run around $100. Also if your receiver doesn't have a dedicated PHONO input, that'll cost about another $50-100 for an amplifier.

You'll be lucky to find a complete decent setup for less than $100.

And as stated earlier in the thread my search for a "new" turntable came about because my Numark TT-200 shit the bed after owning it for less than 2 years and using it infrequently. Numark wanted to charge me $160 just to look at it - not including the price of repairs when the retail value was ~$200. The price you pay when there's only a one-year warranty.

But if you want some basic stuff, you can find plenty of aesthetically-pleasing used plastic P-mount belt driven turntables for less than $50.

I'll be in Charlotte this weekend and was just checking on the off chance and found this:

http://greensboro.craigslist.org/ele/3933505792.html

Technics - SL-D3 for $30. Anyone know anything about those?

It's got a nice hole on the side of the dust cover but looks like it's in pretty good shape.

Are dust covers tough to replace for TT's that old?

And this one as well:

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/ele/3927944615.html

Both of those are probably pretty solid bets at a very reasonable price but I'd go with the SL-D3.
Check out audiokarma.org for reviews/feedback.

From what I've seen on Technics tables, due to poor design the dust covers are the part that seems to break first. One of the bracketing clips on my dust cover is cracked off so I have to lift the entire thing off when I use the turntable; although it doesn't bother me and forces me to put away all my records, turn off the power and put back the dust cover when I'm done. You can get new dust covers for ~$50.

Derris,

I'm making a rare appearance here to attempt to be the voice of sanity here.

Un-ass yr wallet a little. Your ears and blood pressure will thank you.

"Been looking at Technics, Audio Technica, Numark. Found some pretty looking Crosley's but most of what I've read has been that they generally suck."

Forget that.

If you'll be reasonable and consider you are making an investment in your music with a piece of equipment you should own for 10 years or more, buy new and get a Denon DP300. Amazon has them for ~ $260. It comes WITH a cartridge. Hell, it even has a built in phono stage. So, you pull it out of the box (with a fucking dust cover), plug it in, and play music till your James Brown ass is worn out.

As for used and the craigslist route, you can certainly do good that way if you watch it long enough and jump on the right deal. The 2nd one you posted is a very decent tt. The ad didn't mention what cartridge was on it, so assume there isn't one, even though the pics show one. I wouldn't use the 1st one for anything but target practice. When you think about buying a $30 tt, go listen to Bottle Rockets singing Thousand Dollar Car.

And replacing older tt dust covers- which part of a tt do you think is most susceptible to breaking? If you said "dust cover", you were right. If dust covers break more than any other part, what do you think people are looking for after they buy that $30 tt? If you said "dust cover", you were right. Buy a tt that needs a dust cover, you'll most likely still be looking for a dust cover when it shits the bed.

Your Onkyo HT amp doesn't have a phono input, more than likely, and NO, you cannot run a turntable through an Aux input. So, as has been said, you will have to buy an outboard phono stage- they run from $50- Bazillions.

If you go the Craigslist way, be patient- a higher end technics that has been well-cared for is perfectly fine, as are Marantz, Pioneer, Philips, JVC, Denon (my favorite), and several others. But don't buy a $30 turntable. You may as well throw your records on the driveway and run over them for a month or so. If I hadn't stopped buying stuff, I'd have one I'd send you, but I'm pretty sure I've sold or given them all away. If you want advice on a specific tt you might run across, email me because I don't check in here but about twice a month. ettentoze408 at the gmail place. I monitor email constantly.

et

To the point above, I waded into this a few years back and wound up dropping about $275 on a new ProJect. It is bone simple, but it is well made, and it doesn't tear up my shit. I had to buy a preamp because my Onkyo also didn't have a phono in, but Toze steered me the right way on that one too.

My $25 Craigslist used Technics turntable has worked perfectly and sounds beautiful with an Ortofon cartridge that I set up after purchasing a $1 accessory part. I've used it ~2hrs/day without a single problem. If it shits out on me, so be it. I'll probably look for another used one. I'm more than happy with my "$30 turntable". Just sayin...

I looked at those Denon 300F models before I went the used route, and they looked cheaply constructed and were too light for my tastes. Plus I didn't want to pay for a built in phono-amp I didn't need. IMO, it was too expensive for what I wanted compared to equivocal, if not superior, available used options.

I had a D1 for a while and it was solid. The base was light so it skipped some, but I've heard the D3's is heavier. I'd still have it, but I fucked up the tonearm trying to fix it and I found a new TT on craigslist for cheaper than a new tonearm.

Thanks for the input toze, Jerk, Cap, Ramm.

I'd love to get some audiophile level shit but as I just bought a house I'm having trouble justifiying a big purchase at the moment with so many essential house purchases being made right now.

I checked my receiver again and it's actually a Sony digitial audio/video control center. 7 channel amp, STR-DG910. I think the previous owners were obsessed with surround sound for their tv. The Onkyo is actually downstairs in the "media" room and is being used for other purposes.

Basically, the Sony has no phono input so I'll need something with a built in preamp or a turntable and a separate preamp.

Cap, what kind of ProJect did you get? Preamp?

I wouldnt' mind something that does sound great as I've never owned anything that was high end enough to really tell the difference between vinyl and your average cd or Pandora stream.

I did find a Technics SL-D3 currently bidding at $60 on ebay that might work but I'm assuming that would need a preamp?

Also what about these:

http://www.amazon.com/Technica-AT-LP60- ... B002GYTPAE

Seems to be pretty solid and meets all my basic needs. It also could be upgraded I think with new, higher end parts.

You know I don't know what exact model mine is, but it looks just like an "Essential Matte Black" on amazon. Really basic, has a dust cover, and everything can be balanced and leveled. Good motor, heavy-as-hell metal platter, good cartridge. It does NOT have a pre-amp built in, so I had to buy a used one separate. I'm selling it very well, am I?

<sigh>

Come on man. Just doing my due dilligence. I still may go your way.

Problem is, there just aren't a lot of stores anymore that you can just go into and check these things out.

Toze, you know anything about Rega turntables? I have an old Technics that's just sitting collecting dust (it didn't work last time I tried it about a year ago) and was looking at the Rega RP1 but it seems like they sell the dust cover separately and it's $90 so maybe I'd go with a Music Hall or Pro-Ject.

Should have gotten one of those $30 tables. Those things are tanks.
And you will need a preamp.