<--- was worried this was going to be about Cindi Lauper.

sure, she has some rather wacky policy ideas, and i would vehemently oppose cindy sheehan's nomination as secretary of state.
but its her argument about the war thats got people excited, which boils down to her losing a child for... what exactly? it drives home the fact that unlike all of bush's other lies, this one has and will continue to get people killed and rip families apart, and it puts a human, american face on the reality of war. accepting that proposition doesn't mean you have to agree with everything she has to say. imho, her point about the war is pretty unfuckwithable.

I supported the US Involvement in Bosnia, because it was a UN Action to assist European peacekeepers. The Dutch had suffered some losses and were in deep trouble trying to maintain the peace while ethnic cleansing was going on. If anything, the US was late getting involved in the situation, but probably refrained out of respect for the former Soviet Union.
The situation in Kosovo was looking as if the Serbs were going to resume ethnic cleansing before NATO became involved in the situation. The Russian Federation was clearly upset by NATO involvement, but they also have historic ties to Serbia and were clearly looking the other direction while the former Yugoslavians killed each other.
Operation United Shield in Somalia was clearly a catastrophe and showed that the United States government was still unwilling to accept losses in humanitarian missions. The losses in Somalia prevented the Clinton administration from taking an active part in Rwanda without puting his neck on the line and facing the constant criticism of Jesse Helms and Company.

the only thing more boring than listening to cindy sheehan is reading this thread.

listen, she's obviously got a right to be pissed, just as the point is valid that her son was a soldier. Now, the premises that led him over there are what matter.
listening to the speeches at the rallies today and i have to say the argument of pulling out immediately is obsurd. as is the side that we never should've invaded. i think we had to invade if only to upheave the UN sanctions that made Saddam stronger while his people paid for it. which is toi say we never should've invaded the first time around, but he was gassing his own people. which is to say WE SHOULD STAY THE FUCK OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S WARS. oh and go back in time.

Ms. Sheehans' voice grates my head and it pisses me off that it took this woman to galvanize the antiwar movement when there have been more eloquent and informed speakers on the subject from the very beginning. Of couyrse I could never understand her loss, and she has as much right to be at the forefront as anyone. But I mean how old was her son, 22? I think and Iraqi woman whose 18 month old has much more right to be pissed than a grownass man who could make his own decisions. regardlesds, though, these morons calling her a traitor are completely ridiculous. ignore her is it pisses you off so much.

People are generally ignoring her judging by her bus tour... But as long as the media needs a face for the anti-war movement, they'll ride her for a while longer until she implodes by saying something so out of reality that the media have to abandon her as the poster child.

I thought it was going to be about Susan Olson. Bobby has gotten into his share of trouble with the law.

And for the record, Operation United Shield was initiated by the first Bush admin. Sort of a parting-gift to Clinton... You think George H.W. was upset for losing then?






It only could have been more obvious if Perot had been dropped with a pallet of bags of rice...

Regardless of who is president, why is it illegal to protest in front of the white house?

in a lot of countries this job is taken up by university students.
hmm....guess thy're busy these days.

Us students at DePaul have been pushing for more free condom distrobution.

So, WWII was an "okay" war? How so?

Steve (devil's advocate)

apparently that takes precedence over grammar and spelling.

For those who are fond of Ms. Sheehan: Would you still believe she were right if, after her son was killed in combat, she decided to speak out in favor of the war and the administration?

Without giving anyone anything else to drone on about for no reason, WWII was a more easily-swallowed war by the american public, which I'm go on a limb and say you already know.

hey what are the troops doing in Bosnia, Kosovo or Somalia?

just trying to keep myself informed.

<--- was thinking Cindy Brady.

I'd dismiss it as the emotional reaction of a distraught mother. Like I do now.

Plus after the media make an initial heart-warming story on it, they're not going to give a shit.

That's my feeling as well. If she--or any mother of a fallen soldier--were to come out vocally and publically in favor of the war, I would put a decent sum of money that a substantial percentage of the knee-jerk anti-Bush, anti-Iraq crowd would throw their tomatoes and claim she was nothing but a photo op and pawn of the administration.

Many of Ms. Sheehan's supporters only find value in her plight because she advances their own political cause, not because they share her grief.

isn't that why people usually find value in someone's plight though (at least the people on TV)?

The thing is, lots of mothers who had their kids die in the war are still in support of the war. The problem is that most of them just sit around and get pissed off at Ms. Sheehan. I mean, what are they gonna do, camp outside Cornel West's house? Sheehan is popular because she's going AGAINST the status quo or military families.

and seriously, anti-Bush and anti-Iraq couldn't be further terms from one another. The closest thing to anti-Iraq people I can think of are the idiots over there carving it up like easter ham and even they know they need the someone left there to rip off.

Anti-Iraq = Anti-Iraq War. Didn't mean to cause any confusion, but c'mon now.

And if Sheehan's experience has made her opinion of the war "unfuckwithable", then how could the opinion of Charlotte and Doug Smette be characterized?

i know, i just don't want "anti-iraq" becoming a staple over here.

I think she's far from "unfuckwithable". I don't even really like her. she does have the overwhelming tide of public opinion rolling with her, though.

I didn't mean to say that because she had a son die in the war she can't be questioned. Of course she can be, going through a tragedy doesn't make someone immune from criticism. I meant that her broad point (that the war was unnecessary, was based on false pretenses, and that Americans and Iraqis are dying for a lie) is unfuckwithable, as in it's an excellent point that I have yet to hear really effectively countered by the pro-war crowd, except with "support our troops, dissent only emboldens our enemies, we must spread democracy" talking points. The pro-war families of fallen soldiers are every bit as entitled to their opinions, I just happen to think they're dead wrong.

No fucking way am I gonna uproot my kingdom and relocate it to Iraq!