Favorite NON-VIRTUOSO musicians

Dusty Chalk · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:05 pm

Does Bill Laswell count? I mean, define "virtuoso". Does knowing exactly what to play count as being a virtuoso? If so, then never mind.

Billzebub · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm **Posts:** 6459

Ex Lion Tamer Wrote:

Billzebub Wrote:

Ex Lion Tamer Wrote:

Bruce Foxton (Jam Bass player)

Amen. I'm fortunate enough to have seen him live a few times with Stiff Little Fingers. He's a great, if not technically a virtuoso, bass player.

I look at that picture of The Jam on the back of This is the Modern World; you know the one with Foxton playing that gorgeous Rickenbacker in mid leap and I think..."man I wish I'd seen these guys live during their prime"

That picture is awesome. I've posted before that it's my favorite piece of album cover art, period. Foxton looks like he's 15 feet in the air.

jewels santana · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm **Posts:** 10198

Billzebub Wrote:

The Mayor of Simpleton Wrote:

fuse Wrote:

And you know, Miles . . . had pretty limited tools, but
changed music as we know it.

Don't mistake playing minimally for not being a virtuoso. Miles chose to play how he played. It was not due to a lack of skill or ability. He changed music as we know it because of that, not in spite of it.

Nope, Miles was a par-at-best trumpet player. Ditto Wynton Marsalis.

The horn player who gets constantly and undeservedly slagged is Maynard Ferguson.

i think you are talking out of your butt.

fuse · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:36 pm

Didn't mean to cause a stir, I always thought that Miles played with what he had and made it cool, not that he was using a ton of restraint. What do I know? Not sure if this is provable.

And regarding Elvis Costello - depending on your def. of virtuoso, that man has some serious guitar chops. Especially live. Way more skills than his peers.

I love the way George Harrison plays. Such a signature tone and sense of melody with his slide stuff. He could even knock out some pretty neat little leads on the early Beatles stuff.

Billzebub · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm **Posts:** 6459

jewels santana Wrote:

Billzebub Wrote:

The Mayor of Simpleton Wrote:

fuse Wrote:

And you know, Miles . . . had pretty limited tools, but
changed music as we know it.

Don't mistake playing minimally for not being a virtuoso. Miles chose to play how he played. It was not due to a lack of skill or ability. He changed music as we know it because of that, not in spite of it.

Nope, Miles was a par-at-best trumpet player. Ditto Wynton Marsalis.

The horn player who gets constantly and undeservedly slagged is Maynard Ferguson.

i think you are talking out of your butt.

You would be quite wrong.

jewels santana · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm **Posts:** 10198

what skills did miles lack?

fuse · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:15 pm

jewels santana Wrote:

what skills did miles lack?

I don't think anyone can win this debate. Sorry to have brought it up.

jewels santana · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm **Posts:** 10198

fuse Wrote:

jewels santana Wrote:

what skills did miles lack?

I don't think anyone can win this debate. Sorry to have brought it up.

i don't really care about winning, i'm just curious.

Ex Lion Tamer · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:57 pm

Billzebub Wrote:

Ex Lion Tamer Wrote:

Billzebub Wrote:

Ex Lion Tamer Wrote:

Bruce Foxton (Jam Bass player)

Amen. I'm fortunate enough to have seen him live a few times with Stiff Little Fingers. He's a great, if not technically a virtuoso, bass player.

I look at that picture of The Jam on the back of This is the Modern World; you know the one with Foxton playing that gorgeous Rickenbacker in mid leap and I think..."man I wish I'd seen these guys live during their prime"

That picture is awesome. I've posted before that it's my favorite piece of album cover art, period. Foxton looks like he's 15 feet in the air.

...and Weller looks about 15 years old. I've posted the same thing over at Rave Racs. Pure unadulterrated Rock & Roll!

Cotton · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:12 pm **Posts:** 17155

I can't think of any of my favorite musicians that ARE virtuosos.

DumpJack · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:00 pm

Neil Young and Crazy Horse

Elvis Fu · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:31 pm

DumpJack Wrote:

Neil Young and Crazy Horse

God yes. And they are fucking awesome.

Billzebub · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm **Posts:** 6459

jewels santana Wrote:

what skills did miles lack?

I'm not saying he didn't have skills, my take is that he was average for a professional musician. However, compare him to Diz, Clifford Brown, Louis Armstrong, or to classical trumpet players--particularly Maurice Andre, and Miles can't compare. His playing is sloppy/lackadasical--and you can argue all you want that this was intentional--his embrachure was a mess--all of what you'd expect to find in a "virtuoso" player aren't there. When listening to Miles, I can't help but think he could never play his way through the Clarke or Arbans books.

He made tremendous strides and impact in composition, arrangement, and out and out inventiveness--there's no denying that. But if you boil it down to out and out trumpet skills, he's nowhere near the top.

Favorite NON-VIRTUOSO musicians

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