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 Post subject: The answer to this one was easy
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:58 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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Ever play the musician/athlete game? You just pick a band or singer and then decide which sports star they'd be. For instance, Springsteen is Larry Bird, the workingman's hero. Guns N' Roses are Doc Gooden, the prodigy who flamed out too fast. The Stones are Ali, the greatest until they hung around too long. The Police are John McEnroe -- gifted, tortured, ultimately unable to keep it together.



You can easily kill an eight-hour car ride this way ... as long as you keep U2 out of it. Trying to find a match for that band will make you crazy. Kareem and Roger Clemens had similar longevity, but nobody liked them. Ditto for Barry Bonds, although Bonds' head and Bono's both have grown exponentially over the years. Nolan Ryan was breathtaking in moments, but never transcendent. Gretzky and MJ didn't dominate long enough. The closest comparison? Jack Nicklaus. Big splash in the '60s, superduperstar in the '70s, stunning revival in the '80s -- it's a similar arc, right down to the success of "Vertigo" and the 1986 Masters. But can you compare U2 to a golfer? Of course not.



Here's the point: bands just don't do what U2 have done. They don't stay together for 26 years without even a token separation (or 20). They don't continue to pump out quality albums and concert tours (sorry, I don't count the Dead, who haven't been nearly as popular). And they don't resonate with three different generations.



There hasn't been nearly enough made of these guys. Unlike what we do with our sports heroes, few of us consider the overall body of work of musicians. It always comes down to what they did most recently, or who died at the optimal time, or whose music aged best. Fact is, there is no black-and-white way to judge them. How can you prove Jimmy Page was a better guitar player than Eric Clapton? Instead of statistics and awards, we rely on emotions and memories, on what a particular band meant to us. It leads to some deceiving outcomes -- like how everyone forgets that, when Kurt Cobain killed himself, Nirvana had been eclipsed by Pearl Jam and the Smashing Pumpkins. Had he lived, there's a 90 percent chance Cobain and Courtney Love would be starring in a reality show on VH-1 right now. You just never know. That's why people rarely argue about music ... well, unless they're stoned.



With sports, there is nothing to do but argue about this stuff. If music were sports, Kornheiser and Wilbon would be fighting to the death over "Who's better: Franz Ferdinand or The Killers?" But we don't approach music this way, and so U2 never get their due. Take everything you ever read or heard about MJ, then double it -- that's what we'd have if U2 had played ball. What would their rookie card be worth? How many covers would they have graced? What formula would Rob Neyer have concocted to legitimize their run?



Maybe I'm biased. Some people have photo albums; I have U2. When I listened to them as a kid they were belting out angry diatribes about growing up in Ireland, so who could have imagined they'd provide a soundtrack for my life? There was "The Unforgettable Fire" for my moody years, and "The Joshua Tree" for when I began to put it all together. When "Rattle and Hum" came out, I was also taking myself a little too seriously. "Achtung Baby"? We were both running on all cylinders. "Zooropa" and "Pop"? We were both figuring out where to go next. We finally crossed paths with "All That You Can't Leave Behind." I was covering my first Super Bowl and U2 was singing at halftime of the eventual Pats upset, and yes, it was a "Beautiful Day." With their most recent, "How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb," I'm in a good place, and so are they. They're E.T. to my Elliott.



Throw in the unintentional comedy and general weirdness -- how Bono doesn't age (much like David Robinson); how you can't call "The Edge" just "Edge"; every delightfully absurd minute of the Rattle and Hum documentary (my favorites: The Edge's extended mullet, the Graceland trip and every conversation between Bono and B.B. King); Bono's pompous concert speeches; even Adam Carolla's idea that we should deport Bono so he can annoy Ireland instead of us -- and there has never been another band like this. At the recent Grammys, they were still as strong on stage as anyone else, even though I'm pretty sure The Edge died about three years ago and they're just propping him up. Against all odds, they keep plugging away.



They have no peers in the business, and no sports equivalent. So if you ever play the musician/athlete game, save some time -- skip U2 and go right to a band like Van Halen. (They were Sugar Ray Leonard, but that's a whole other story.)

Bill Simmons - ESPN2 Page 2 www.espn.com
_____________________________________________________

The answer is the Yankees. They've been dominant forever. Lots of people love em, lots of people loathe, but you can't really deny that at times they kick major ass. even the Bombers go through fallow periods (the 80s are U2's mid nineties albums Zooropa and Pop) but there are always going to be people that love or loathe em, and most people aren't just in the middle.

Oh, and Billzebub is gonna HATE this comparison.

<-----Proving once again that Simmons usually gets the idea right and the execution wrong.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:03 pm 
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Of course they're the Yankees, but the team itself. No Steinbrenner involved.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Spoon Spins Early Kansas Wrote:
Of course they're the Yankees, but the team itself. No Steinbrenner involved.


Paul MacGuiness or whatever their manager's name is, is Steinbrenner---dude is fucking ruthless just this side of Peter Grant.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:52 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Paul MacGuiness or whatever their manager's name is, is Steinbrenner---dude is fucking ruthless just this side of Peter Grant.

Peter Grant is lucky he pulled that physical bullying on the right people.

Steve


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:56 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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DunwoodyDude Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Paul MacGuiness or whatever their manager's name is, is Steinbrenner---dude is fucking ruthless just this side of Peter Grant.

Peter Grant is lucky he pulled that physical bullying on the right people.

Steve


Yeah but he had Richard Cole and "the flick of the foot" Bloor and I have an ongoing debate as to which of us is Grant and which is Cole. (I susally get Grant because of the corpulence thing, but you know...it really can go either way.)

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:57 pm 
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Whiskey Tango
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DunwoodyDude Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Paul MacGuiness or whatever their manager's name is, is Steinbrenner---dude is fucking ruthless just this side of Peter Grant.

Peter Grant is lucky he pulled that physical bullying on the right people.

Steve


Honestly, I could sit with a fine glass of lemonade and read stories, true or not, about the exploits of Peter Grant and Richard Cole all day.

Not what you would call amateur hour with those two.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:33 pm 
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Go Platinum

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U2 = Rafael Septien

The cream-puffiest position on the field, and a child molester.

Edit: Much like the Cowgirls, my contempt for U2 knows no bounds.


Last edited by Billzebub on Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:45 pm 
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Inevitable devolution into a "U2 sucks" thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:52 pm 
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Spoon Spins Early Kansas Wrote:
Inevitable devolution into a "U2 sucks" thread.

I'm gonna listen to Boy tomorrow.

Steve


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:56 pm 
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Putting on The Unforgettable Fire right now as a form of historical affront to the revisionists and tineared numbnuts.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Major Label Sell Out
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Would someone please teach me how to love U2 again?
I just get a feeling of overexposure and nostagia and mainstream and hipocrisy and well, I dunno--I guess I am just not buying it anymore- everytime I listen to them now, and it wierds me out. Boy changed alot for me, Unforgettable fire is one of the greatest make-out/close the deal albums ever, I friggin worshipped Joshua Tree, but now it just sounds bloated and pompous, when it used to resonate so deep. This is not a devolving U2 sux comment, its a CRY FOR HELP! :shock:
Chris


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:02 pm 
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Spoon Spins Early Kansas Wrote:
Putting on The Unforgettable Fire right now as a form of historical affront to the revisionists and tineared numbnuts.


If that's how you want to spend the finite number of moments we have on this planet, have at it. Me, I'm listening to Solid Gold.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:09 pm 
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Solid Gold? Which host? Is it the Rex Smith years?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:12 pm 
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Spoon Spins Early Kansas Wrote:
Solid Gold? Which host? Is it the Rex Smith years?


Nah, the Andy Gill years.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:31 pm 
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Spoon Spins Early Kansas Wrote:
Solid Gold? Which host? Is it the Rex Smith years?

I only remember Marilyn McCoo and the dead Gibb brother

edit:Okay, I googled Rex Smith and remember him now. Pirates of Penzance dude.


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 Post subject: Re: The answer to this one was easy
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:39 pm 
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Sen. P.O.D.Y. LooGAR Wrote:
Bill Simmons - ESPN2 Page 2 www.espn.com
_____________________________________________________

The answer is the Yankees. They've been dominant forever. Lots of people love em, lots of people loathe, but you can't really deny that at times they kick major ass. even the Bombers go through fallow periods (the 80s are U2's mid nineties albums Zooropa and Pop) but there are always going to be people that love or loathe em, and most people aren't just in the middle.


Nah, I'd say they are more like the Olympics. They surface with something new every 3 or 4 years and they've been very popular for a long time. Its hard to argue that they're not good at what they do, but its also hard to argue that they aren't too political or against the notion that they aren't what they used to be in the 80's.

And as a personal clincher, I don't pay much attention to either anymore.

np: Eugene McDaniels "Headless Heroes of the Apocalypse"


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 Post subject: Re: The answer to this one was easy
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:06 pm 
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billy g Wrote:
Nah, I'd say they are more like the Olympics. They surface with something new every 3 or 4 years and they've been very popular for a long time. Its hard to argue that they're not good at what they do, but its also hard to argue that they aren't too political or against the notion that they aren't what they used to be in the 80's.

And as a personal clincher, I don't pay much attention to either anymore.


Wow. Well said.

np: The Clash :: "White Riot"

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:24 am 
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DunwoodyDude Wrote:
Spoon Spins Early Kansas Wrote:
Solid Gold? Which host? Is it the Rex Smith years?

I only remember Marilyn McCoo and the dead Gibb brother

edit:Okay, I googled Rex Smith and remember him now. Pirates of Penzance dude.



"You...take...my...breath awAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!"


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:52 pm 
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Simmons is a good writer when it comes to sports and pop culture, but has no idea when it comes to music. People don't argue about music unless they are high my ass.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:58 pm 
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In her prime, Marilyn McCoo was one of the most gorgeous women who ever lived.

That is all.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:59 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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beachy lunchtime musings Wrote:
Would someone please teach me how to love U2 again?
I just get a feeling of overexposure and nostagia and mainstream and hipocrisy and well, I dunno--I guess I am just not buying it anymore- everytime I listen to them now, and it wierds me out. Boy changed alot for me, Unforgettable fire is one of the greatest make-out/close the deal albums ever, I friggin worshipped Joshua Tree, but now it just sounds bloated and pompous, when it used to resonate so deep. This is not a devolving U2 sux comment, its a CRY FOR HELP! :shock:
Chris


It's not that hard Chris, put on the new album. It's awesome.

and Tommy, I agree that Simmons is a pretty good writer, I just tend to disagree with his assessments a lot. He is kind of like a little bit older, little but jocko/schmucko/fratto Klosterman...and by al that I mean Klosterman blows him away but Simmons is entertaining

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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