the senator must be at lunch.

"Ms. Thomas, 89, made a name for herself asking tough, provocative questions of every president since John F. Kennedy, but her tart tongue may have finally brought her career to a close. Ms. Thomas said on Monday that she will retire, following an uproar over her recent remarks that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine.”

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... -rules/?hp

Poor ole Helen- her wig finally got too tight.

She kept her bigotry to herself for 89 years, and just couldn't do it any longer.

Finally someone speaking the truth. It's a shame that Israel gets such a free pass from the American establishment. I believe the fact that Israel has nuclear weapons is worrisome, which seems to be overlooked.

No, what she said and how she said it is indefensible - unless senility is the defense - and it has little to do with the policies of Israel's government.

But by her logic, perhaps all the Europeans should get the hell out of North America. We certainly have less claim to this place than the Jews do to Palestine.

I didn't watch the video clip before, but I do have to agree with the how she said it part. I don't believe that Jews need to get the hell out of Israel, but maybe the Zionists do. I think that it's interesting that American Jews are increasingly siding less with Israel. I wish that the United States would start putting more conditions on the enormous amount of aid we give Israel. The Israeli government's existence alone is provocative in the Middle East, which doesn't event factor in their overly aggressive foreign policy. Israel is a major factor and rallying call, obviously not the only one, in global terrorism and jihadism. Their aggressiveness is understandable given their security situation, but, and not too excuse the acts of terror, the aggressiveness against them is also understandable. My position has nothing to do with "claim" but with current circumstances which are obviously different in North America then the Middle East, where all of their neighbors wish they would get the hell out.

I don't understand how Palestine gets a pass from the liberal intellectuals.

do they?

Yes, every liberal I know talks about the horrible policies of Israel and freeing the Palestinians. Just like you and old Leon.

Why are the Palestinians the bad guys here again, Kingfish. I need some education, American-style.

Oh, I'm not really on a side DJ. I just get annoyed when people think they have this big counter-establishment though and they're going to enlighten me like I've never heard it before. And in reality, it's the same song that most people in their age group, socio-economic background, and cultural background are saying.

In reality, you're not going to get more from me as far a position on the issue other than - it's an area of the world with too many ethnic cultures claiming ownership of a relatively small portion of land. They all have some sort of claim and they've all engaged in questionable policies for a long time.

I'd like to read a decent history of the entire conflict sometime, with as little slanting as possible. I admittedly take a sympathetic side to those who've had their land grabbed .

I would too actually. And I've sort of tried in my lazy internet kind of way, and it left me more questions than answers.

All right, some poli-sci/history type needs to recommend a proper objective overview of this whole situation, if such a thing exists.

As an aside, I met Helen Thomas when I was 15. She was as crotchety in person as she appears. And I mean that as a compliment. She seemed a 100 then.

This is the best one I read. It was the text book for my class on the conflict. It's a great overview, but it can get a bit academic and dense. Also I don't believe that I've ever given the Palestinians a free pass, and do believe that they haven't made things easier for themselves in many cases. I am tired of Israel getting a free pass from the US government though.

Thanks, leon.

The solution is the one-state, non-sectarian, ethnically-plural model. But no one will go for that. Least of all the mainstream U.S. foreign strategists.

Helen was a sideshow most of the past 2 decades... hope she has a few more years left to enjoy life outside of the political world she has lived in for so long.

1. The idea that for 100 years "white Europeans" have pushed "people of color" off a land they've lived on for centuries, and in the process have gained military superiority over their neighbors through untold billions of US support, achieved great economic development to degree where the lifestyle for the "mainstream" Israeli is similar to Western Europe and the US while there are neighbors who have been pushed from their historic lands and now live in abject poverty, and the state of Israel treats non-mainstream non-jews as second class citizens... well there are plenty of reasons a "progressive" minded thinker has problems with Israel (whatever Kingfish says about generations and demographics, there is a coherent theory that predicates progressive liberationist thinking.. not that he would agree with it). The fetishism of Israel by the American Taliban bible-banging SUV christianity perverts who hunger for Armageddon... well, that doesn't help either.

2. The whole of the mid-east has other states which are incredibly oppressive, totalitarian, racist... Hamas has no love from me, and that Hamas are like the Teabaggers of Palestinian statehood doesn't make me excuse Israel more.

1. In refuting me, you only proved my point.

2. It's just like the mayflower, Harry. That black and white. It's not like the Jewish homeland was to protect the Jews from the white europeans. Nope. They are the white Europeans.

Clearly the Israeli government has done and is doing a lot of wrong, and they have a dirty past. But who are we to point fingers in that regard? Sure, we shouldn't be giving unconditional military and financial aid - if that's what we're still doing - but it looks like our government's attitude towards Israel may be changing. If so, that's a good thing. We may need to set out some ultimatums. Even though they've been staunch allies of ours as well, they do things we shouldn't condone.

But I think a lot of different issues are being muddled together into one amorphous whole that looks to be simply anti-Israel, and coming out of the mouth of Helen Thomas - what got this whole discussion going - it also seems anti-semitic. I know being critical of Israel doesn't translate into anti-semitism (and a lot of right-wingers annoyingly try to paint it that way), but when someone prominent gives the media a negative soundbite like that, it doesn't help the cause of taking a firmer, more critical stand on the practices of Israel's government.

1. I wasn't trying to refute you, I was explaining the content of progressive thinking to you. You'll note the quotes around "white Europeans"... identifying the elements of the analysis that is foundational to the position that the actions of the state of Israel are problematic.

2. As said by Drinky above, it is the usual canard that somehow being concerned about the choices made in Israel somehow overlooks or even supports the Holocaust. One can ( and logically should) be horrified about what happened to Jews in Europe in the last century and object to the militarized state of Israel, which is essentially a creation of American military aid. And speaking of logic, a "progressive" thinker would indeed have a similar analysis of the Mayflower... although Spain (the hegemonic power of the time) didn't give the Pilgrims millions of dollars of gold for arms.