Kid has been playing trombone for 5 years and doesn't even know the notes in a Bb scale, the freaking standard scale for all concert band music in middle/high school.

He can't tell me that a Bb scale consists of Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb...and when I explain to him that these are things he should either know by know or start learning now he just gets frustrated and starts crying.

Kids are too much.

I bet you kick puppies, too, huh?

http://www.kgw.com/animal_news/stories/ ... f2225.html

Think I can send in gauchebag's name and claim the $2500 reward?

[off topic]seriously, when I read stories like this, I want to kill[/off topic]

not being able to know the notes in a scale is one thing, but if he were a true musician he would have just told you to fuck off.

if he cries, then he doesn't care.

I bet Flea knows the notes in a B flat scale. And then he slaps them!

he's just not meant to do music. steer him towards other forms of the arts. some people are just not musically inclined. he's just going to have to accept that and do something else.

I don't know. I didn't really learn theory until I had a few songs under my belt and developed an ear for patterns in songs I liked. If my teacher would have made me head straight into memorizing scales from the get-go, as a fourteen year-old, I probably would have balked, too.

I was hoping this thread was about fisting.

i just leared my first scale last year, after writing about 200 songs.

That's "ASS lesson"

Hmm...I thought it would be about fishing.

Yeah, but can he actually play? If so, leave him alone. It's a lot more than some kids who CAN tell you the scale can do.

In Gauche's defense, the Bb concert scale is usually one of the first scales learned in beginning band classes in fifth and sixth grades (he said that the guy's been playing trombone for 5 years...). It is also the scale usually used for warming up as a group in band classes.

thank you dude...he should know the notes in that scale by now. that's the first thing you learn in 4th grade, a Bb. the problem is that he only knows the positoins on the trombone and none of the actual notes...he can probably hardly read music.

it's not his fault, it's all of his music teachers that have let him down.

i just think it's weak that he's 14 and starts crying bc he can't tell me the 7 notes in a Bb major scale.

I'd say 4 out of 5 of my eight graders can't keep a steady beat, and that's the first thing you learn in kindergarten.

Although he wasn't raised in a ghetto by gangbangers, and he's been in band for half a decade. If it was my little brother, i'd be a bit ashamed, but luckily they're all badass little musicians. All three of them. Much to the chagrin of my parents.

Obviously you don't need theory to play music, or write music, but if you're only musical experience is playing in a large ensemble, there's no way to get by without reading music. You just can't do it.

Show him a C major scale on the piano, maybe if you pair the visual spacing of half and whole steps, and show him how it works in Bb, then hit all 12 major keys, that'd help him understand the pattern and how it's preserved, but has to change based on what note you start on. And be encouraging, give him positive reinforcement for the things he does right, and when he makes a mistake (no matter how obvious), don't ask him why he did it. Instead, backpedal to the last thing he did right, and ask him to do that. Then go back to what he messed up. Remember, individuals learn things different ways and at different rates, it's more important that he learns it, not when he learns it, or how he learns it. And you're right, his lack of knowledge shows a glaring lack of education on his teacher's part. Could be that they're just slammed with a large program and not enough scheduled time to teach in smaller groups or individually.

Check out a book called Tonal Harmony by Kostka. It's got a great theory workbook that'll suss out some stuff for both of you. Starts light, get's heavy, but has a meaningful progression that demystifies alot of stuff.

I mean, thanks for the advice dude but it's all stuff I already know and was doing...I'm a secondary ed major after all. He's just so damn sensitive and I know he's intelligent enough that I shouldn't have to baby him at the age of fourteen for things he should already know...if I asked him what 8 x 8 was and he told me 54 I'd break his balls just as hard as I did about the scale. It's just things he should know, especially if he plays in a band.

I showed him the keyboard and the spacial reasoning behind it.

I just think he doesn't get music, which is a shame because he listens to really good stuff and has really good ideas for albums and things because he's so smart, but he's just never going to execute musically. Too many goddamn video games and not enough time with the trombone.

Way to go, future teacher...making your student cry. Sheeesh! You're a meanie!

it's not the video games' fault if he can't execute musically. He just don't got it, get it?

Yeah, but if you know it on one instrument you don't necessarily know how to play it on another one.

e.g. I can play it on flute----it's the main scale flute warm up with too. And if I pick up a sax it's pretty much the same thing---but because I'm new to the bass i'd have to relearn it. (whoa sad day for puntuation, my friends)

make sense?

Whoa dude. Easy there. I've taken music theory classes since I was kid, went to an art school and played in the band... but it just never made sense to me.
Yeah I get it now, pretty much, but the truth is I'm just not a theory head. On the other hand I have an intensely, almost annoying sense of pitch and timing. I'm happy no one told me I 'wasn't cut out for music' at a young age. I would have been very sad. Mind you, I probably would have told them to fuck off.

There's a whole history of musicians who play by ear. I'd say the moajority in popular music start out playing by ear and then later start 'getting' the theory bit by bit as they need it.

I'd agree with this. I always teach kids by starting them off on songs they like and then show them the theories behind how the stuff works. Forget the trombone thing. If that was a bust and he didn't take to it, start from scratch and play along with some tunes.


Kids just wanna rock.

maybe he's dyslexic.

Too bad the world doesn't have more music teachers like you.
There would less frustrated musicians in the world.

Educational theory says: intrinsic motivation > extrinsic motivation
i.e. much better for a kid to be motivated by a discovered love of music than wanting to get a gold star for a perfect scale.

Also, it's good to realy understand the context & usefullness of something you're learning... i.e. the kid's desire to learn a song can be used to fuel their learning of the scales.

edit: too sleepy bad typey

Maybe he doesn't care.

music theory is like weird math
even though I could rock the Calculus, and play music, I've always had trouble thinking of music as math.

playing bass is totally different from playing trombone.