I could go to a conference in Anaheim in a few months. The wife and baby would come with. But looking at the map, I am not encouraged. I'm not a fan of the sprawling mass that is LA, and that seems to be the closest thing. Also I would try to not have a car, and just cab / train it.

Worth it? I know nothing about the place.

In Anaheim itself, there's Disneyland, the Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles (assuming you are coming in Baseball season and they are home), and a House of Blues which may or may not have anyone interesting playing. Those are the only things I've ever felt inclined to see in Anaheim. You can take the metro rail from Anaheim up to LA or down to San Diego. I'd guess its probably a little over an hour either way. Anaheim isn't far from the Orange County Beaches (Huntington Beach, Newport Beach, Laguna Beach) and I'd assume there are buses that could take you there but I've never looked into that.

If you're willing to rent a car, there are a lot more options. There's a lot to do within 1-2 hours of Anaheim but if its a work trip who knows how much time you'd really have to take advantage of all that anyway.

Hmm. I picture us hunkered at the Marriot bar with an infant, and it's not a great picture.

Why do you hate the freedom that only a car can provide you? Mother earth will live to fight another day if you rent a car.

No they're just a pain in the ass.

(also I'm scared of being white, and I don't really love music)

doesn't everybody in southern california have a car? it is essential to have a car in these towns that developed during the golden age of automobiles when sidewalks were gauche. i'd suck it up and rent a car. anaheim is a bust, but as said above there's plenty to do within an hour or two of there.

Hmm.

It doesn't help that my other choice is a conference in Cleveland.

in cleveland you could at least go to melt. that place rules.

Pain in the ass in comparison to limited public transportation in a strange city?

anaheim could be a foofurah, but cleveland is definitely a hargle bargle. holy shit i hate that place

Not to give GAR any more ammo, but yeah, when you never drive a car, trying to go navigate around a strange city in one kinda sucks ass. I just don't enjoy them anymore. Now if I went alone, and someone rented me a motorcycle, then shit yes. But with a wife and baby, meh.

Either way I don't think I'll bite on the Anaheim based on content alone. It'd be ok, but I'm too busy. The Cleveland one would be more interesting, surroundings aside.

you could tour phil's ol' stomping grounds

The benefit of being in Anaheim is the weather... downtown disney is pretty nice now too, lots of places to eat and drink... nothing really necessarily to do tho, a car is almost a requirement anywhere in southern california... anywhere in california seems alot better than cleveland, but thats completely biased because i love it here. For the kid, theres places to go here that are kid friendly too that you dont have to go into Disneyland for.

First Mate doesn't drive either? I can see being ambivalent if you really don't have time for getting more than a 1/2 hour from Anaheim yourself because of work. But presumably First Mate wouldn't be as limited. I'd think she'd be better off in Anaheim with a car than in Cleveland with or without a car.

This aversion to cars is just incomprehensible to me. How did First Mate get around Wisconsin?

I'm not really trying debate anything. I understand the utility of public transportation in concentrated urban area for a single person. But lugging a kid around, buying tickets, figuring out stops, dealing w/ crowds, all seem to point to it being easier to just rent a car and bringing a map.

We both have licenses and use Zipcars once a month or so. Also we lived in Madison, so there were buses and bike paths everywhere. Our car was down to like 6,000 miles a year, and 2.5k of that was road trips out of state. So we sold it a year ago. Now she takes her bike everywhere, including with the kiddo in a burley trailer with a car seat in it. After a year or so of not regularly driving a car, I find I just don't really like it much. There are no "fun" parts to it, only annoying parts to one degree or another, and a lot of cost and liability. The motorcycle shares that liability, but makes up for it by being much more rewarding somehow - something you have to actively participate in to a much higher degree. No cell calls, no coffee, no leaning back on the headrest, just fresh air and concentration. I'm as surprised as anyone, but it's just different, andin a good way. Now Gar can re-phrase all this and skewer me with it.

Nothing about this sounds like a good idea Cap.

No car = No LA

Just hangin in Anaheim doesn't seem to warrant 2 cross country flghts with a toddler.

You know yr answer.

I know. I really wanna be able to go to shit like these shows, though, but I guess sometimes you don't get everything you want. I had a good run, and I'll be back in action again someday.

I'm not what some people call a "car person" -- I don't drive for any shear pleasure of it and don't really have any interest in shelling out a lot of coin for a fancy luxury car. I can't imagine though being so against cars though given their utility in getting me and my stuff from one place to another relatively hassle free. If I had to tool around in one of them zipcars, I might hate cars too. To each his own though.

I can't say i really disagree with Derris. If you are hellbent on not renting a car then its probably a waste of time flying all the way to Anaheim.

Agreed.

Cap'n, you can ride the bus with your family, that way you can take some new pics.

Dale if you're gonna do this, you should really get better at it.

Cleveland Pros
Great Lakes Brewing Company (i dream about the beer and food)
Rock Hall I guess
Good Little Italy
Coventry has some delicious chow (Tommy's for vegetarian and a great milkshake), and record stores, also Grums sandwich shop
Public Transpo is not Chicago good, but definitely nowhere near Austin bad.
Plenty of clubs to catch music
Jacobs Field is a great ballpark

Cleveland Cons
Numerous