Here ya go FR and Harry. Pick it up in a nice, clean thread. I've been down this road (on this board) a thousand times, but it's always amusing.

Just so I'm clear, is the topic about 1) people's upset at Tebow professing his faith in Jesus or 2) people's upset at other people talking about Tebow as if he's Jesus? I'm not bothered by the former as I don't watch much NFL live action or interviews and find the latter to be amusing.

"Why don't athletes ever say 'I was playing a great game... until Jesus made me fumble!'" - Jeff Stilson

It's in the NFL thread, Sketch.

I had guessed that but was too lazy to check. Thanks.

I don't follow football, but this is bleeding into non-sports news and popping up in my rss feed. I guess I don't understand why we would ever need to know about this guy's personal belief system. This applies to anyone who feels the need to publicly thank Jesus or whatever deity you kneel towards.

i wish there were some athletes ballsy enough to profess atheism or something

I'll explain it you in terms you can understand, Dump: Think about how on Survivor this season, all the praying and praising and carrying on makes you feel then multiply that times the popularity of American football and there you have it.

I'm actually more annoyed by the "controversy" than I am about anything he, or anyone against his proselytizing, might say.

This is about as relevant to my life as a bag of smashed assholes - and to be clear, there is no fucking war on Christianity, just as there is no war against people speaking out against wearing their beliefs on their sleeves.

BLECH x 1 MIL

His faith/Christainity doesn't tick me off, but every time I hear him speak I have to roll my eyes a little bit. He says the right thing every time and it's not as if it's an act, he's just that perfect...and that's pretty annoying.

oh, you mean Jesus 2.0? I'm sure that's not an original nickname, but I started calling him that during his Gayturds days.

Just popping through to high-five harry and Flying Rabbit for some awesome discussion in the NFL thread.

I wish Rex Grossman would get religion.

This is the kind of crap i see on my facebook newsfeed:

"You can't explain it... It has to be God at work through him. The TEBOW train keeps rollin'. All aboard!!! Great win against a great defense!!! GO Broncos!!!!"

^that's why I use the "hide" button. Unless it is a pretty girl. Then I post "I know, it's fantastic!"

Sheesh. This has turned into something I wish it hadn't. I'm completely open, but I don't want to wave it around on the board--usually. To be honest, I didn't know that conversation had turned into much to warrant at thread. My apologies.

My take, for what its worth--Not a Tebow fan, but don't mind the hoopla. To be perfectly honest, if this whole thing keeps going for one more week I'll be happy because he'll have knocked off the Patriots and my Ravens can hopefully clinch the no.1 seed.

That said, as a Christian (and it can probably be said of belief system), that when you live it--you (try to) live it 100%. 99.9% of the time you fail. You mess up. And, its God's grace that helps me back up. If I am to live and am supposed to be a follower of Jesus, I understand there is a line in the sand. I need to live my life and try to emulate him. Now, what does that mean for Tebow? He's unabashedly into his God. He says it in interviews, he thanks him for his successes, he's basically giving it his all because if you are to believe that God created everything, and placed you here, then you better be thanking him. For me, I see Tebow as understanding that not just anyone has his abilities. They're God-given. That is what Tebow believes. So, why wouldn't he be joyful that he's received them?

Like I said in the other thread--if you were excited about something, wouldn't you want everyone else to know about it? Wouldn't you want others to join in and get the same excitement and joy that you get?

And, honestly, is what he's doing really that inflammatory? Why does it polarize people so much? Why do people care? Why does it ruffle feathers when someone drops the J-word?

I mean, I get it. I do. A lot of crap has been done in the name of Jesus. A lot. I understand many people have really bad memories of church, or religion or whatever. And, honestly so do I. I have and had a lot of messed up times with religion. So, yeah, I get it.

So, those are my .02. It is what it is. I hold my faith near to my heart. I'll talk about them with anyone who wants to talk.

I don't mind that he's a Christian or expresses his beliefs. For me, that has nothing to do with it. My problem with Tebow is the media is so up into his butt, it makes me sick. "Tebow Does It Again!" No he didn't. The Broncos kicker won that game for them yesterday kicking 3 long field goals.

Why? His faith aside, his team is on a tear. Before he was named starting QB, his team was looking at a losing season. The Broncos are now in 1st place. Doesn't that warrant coverage, TJ? I mean, every time the Patriots win its all about Brady, same with Steelers and Big Ben. Someone has to be the face.

This is where it starts to transition into an Issue: the need to share the joy one has found in Christ with everyone and the assumption that others would want to join in.





The second point here largely answers the questions you pose.

The problem is that Tebow has not been that good of a quarterback. It seems like defenses don't know how to play against him because he sucks so much.

fuck this dude. srsly.

Awesome. At least we got Kyle Orton out of quasi-board retirement.

I read comparisons between Tebow 2011 & Vince Young 2006, & it makes sense, down to their running QB style, but thinking a little harder, & knowing that Elway has turned to embrace Tebow, isn't Denver setting itself up for a Cleveland Browns/Derek "Horseballs" Anderson situation? This is prolly a one season fluke that will be overly rewarded & set Denver back another three years.

& I love it. Finally, revenge for Super Bowl XXXII.

It always has and always will boil down to one word...faith. We all express it in different ways and in different things. Some are offended, some see a hero. The differences, y'know? And it's not all about intelligence, as many will posit.

Tebow's faith is nothing new, no different than Kurt Warner or any of the countless kneeling, chest-crossing touchdown celebrations we see weekly. What's different is all the idiots who claim we are "witnessing a holy miracle" because of the unlikely ways they've been winning. Tebow really isn't the issue here.

Well this is interesting. A little dialogic inquiry. Let's see if we can get at some new understanding. I will probably exhibit exactly something I will challenge as core to the "problem" with Tebow (and none of us know him, when I say "Tebow" I use it to represent his media-driven image and what it signifies in the American public sphere generally, and the domain of "faith" specifically).... that is I will judge and be superior and suggest that "he" "perverts" God's will. Let's deconstruct this a bit by digging into Obner.

Mr. Rabbit in the thread we highjacked say
.

"The Church"... is what Tebow stands for? That he may exhibit a self-serving humility and band-aid-under-the-eyes scriptural exegesis (in fact declaiming "no inquiry is necessary, God said it, I believe it, and that's the end of the story") does not "equal" the Church. Discourse analysis, pulling apart the codes/semiotics of "born again Christian evangelicalism"... ("lift up", "give praise to my Lord and Savior", "have a blessed day") this is not just a genuine expression of "faith" but rather a call to the initiated, a declaiming of the elect, and representation of the evangelical heresy.

"The Gospel" may not be "asking the Lord Jesus to come into my heart and confirming my American exceptionalism." "The Gospel" might actually be what Jesus said and did, and the two thousand years of the tradition trying to understand it. "The Church" as you have defined it, and "Tebow" represents it, is a heresy of the last 150 years, growing out of the Holiness Revivals (The Great Awakening)... No, I have not been hurt by the Church (the son and grandson of bishops) but rather I am still a member of a mainline Christian denomination (Episcopalian, where they say you don't check your Reason at the door....), am nurtured by my church, not the least its connection to 2000 years of tradition.

My objection to "Tebow" is different from most of Obner, I would wager. My objection is that "he" cheapens Jesus, promotes the growth of a kind of thinking that is closer to the Pharisees than Jesus' radical project (c.f. scriptural references in other thread). "Tebow", like TV, deadens. Jesus urges our discomfort. Jesus rips apart families, not legislating "family values." Jesus is a radical call to questioning, not self-satisfied posturing. Critical thinking honors the Lord I love... God is not a reality show... God is fucking surreal and jocks that don't know this annoy me. It's the blood and body of our savior, not Jesus McNuggets. Selah.