I know most of you probably hate the noodly-hippy-trippy stuff, but can i at least get a shout for American Beauty and Workingmans Dead (not to mention Blues For Allah)

I was thinking about them because i've noticed that Al Franken uses ALL Dead tunes as bumpers on his radio show.

And i like them, even if they dont get near as much play as they used to.

I've never had a problem admitting how much I like the Dead, or Phish, or any of the "jam bands."

Hey, if it's a good show, then it's a good show. And when I saw the Dead in August, I had a GREAT time.

Through Phish I had alot of friends get into The Talking Heads, My Bloody Valentine, etc. So that's cool.

And the use of American Beauty in the last episode of Freaks n Geeks...brilliant!

I don't mind jam bands, i mind jams.

Amen, Gordo.

I've never hastened to admit that I saw Phish forty ... six times?! But I will be the first to poke fun at myself. That's another story.

But, absolutely, MBV, THeads, VU: these are all bands with which I accredit Phish my introduction to them.

The Dead: was never very into them, but I'll gladly give Bloor a what-what for at least Workingman's Dead, if not also Aoxomoxoa.

Funny, because for the last few months I've been listening to them more often, probably from hearing that bumper music from time to time.

I don't dig the jammy stuff, but I do like their country bluesy psychedelic burrito-ish stuff a lot. Usually the shorter songs and some ballads. Always have.

hey, let's not kid ourselves. i've seen phish 28 times. yeah, lots of wasted money and time, but also immeasurable amounts of fun and camraderie that i wouldn't trade it.

i'd like to have my mind back though.

Yep. I own tons of Dead. Workingman's American Beauty, Europe '72, Steal Your Face (not the best) and three or four Dick's Pics, my favorite of which is 6, from Hartford in '83. First set is all stuff like this. Startswith Alabama Getaway even.

The Dead for all their obvious faults, stomped on the damn terra and get much respect from me.

Those are both GREAT, GREAT albums! I concur with the Lord of Redlands.

I gotta turn most jam band songs off at the 3.5 minute mark.

That's not entirely Phish's fault, though. Nobody made you take those pills.

Then again, at SPAC this summer I had a particularly involved mental experience on E during which I realized (something I already knew) that Phish perpetuated mindlessness by eventually regurgitating old jams and tricks, and promoting their own and their fanbase's collective drug use by mere insinuation, or other. It became over-consumption in the truest sense of the word. There was a time, though, when every night was fresh, spontaneous, limitless, and endearing, and I'm glad to have seen a number of those shows.

PUSSY.

Sorry I don't believe in shot outs, burn outs or anything else such as this. As someone who has consumed his fair share of various substances, including massive drinking (on a scale which would probably frighten most of you) and I can still recall minutiae on cue and beat any of you morons at Jeopardy! maybe I am blessed with a stronger constitution, but methinks this line of thinking is off base.

And I know you go to Vandy, so I think your mind is probably sound, you are just perpetuating a wrongheaded line of thought.

HEY PHIL!!! love ya babe but can you read the thread title? you posted twice about "jam bands"....uhhhhhh dude thats not the thread, its about the grateful dead who arent a jam band; they are the grateful dead; no offense brother just gotta set one of my bass playin brothas straight (btw thanks to you i was inspired to get my sansamp bass di working again and you're right--its pretty cool).......

Glad the sans amp is working.

If the dead aren't a jam band, then we don't have a presence in iraq.

I remember in high school, one of my friends sat me down and made me listen to this 20 something minute version of Dark Star. I nearly choked him.

The Dead are seriously overrated, have a few good melodies, and were in desperate need of some kind of outside editing force to pare the songs down, boil off the impurities.

I mean, shit, Alice's Gawddamn Restaurant isn't as long as some Dead tunes!

Ever heard John Oswald's Grayfolded? It's a pastiche of a bunch of "Dark Star"s spliced together. I was given a copy but gave it away before I had any idea what it was (or even listened to it ... )

I'd have to agree with Bloor on this. Labelling the Dead a jam band is severely limiting and presumptuous. They predate the lameness of the jam bands that they inevitably spurned, but weren't a jam band themselves. They were Americana, bluegrass, experimental, jazz.

Phish even, in their heyday, I would've never described as a mere jam band. They were Phish.

They were bands who jammed.

People went to see them jam, among other reasons.

Phish and The Grateful Dead are jam bands.

I understand that to many they were much more than that.

But they're still jam bands, and to say they aren't is to deny their most basic musical nature.

Just because you don't like the connotation it has doesn't mean the term doesn't apply.

phil! stop posting in this thread because im going to cut a promo on you dude and i really dont want to; stick to what you know because you are traipsing into some of the most ignorant bullshit ive ever had the displeasure of reading--dont hate on shit that you have no knowledge of

Fine.

so they weren't jam bands?

I fail to see how that's ignorant bullshit, and why differing tastes give you a reason or the right to prohibit me from posting in any thread, just because i don't bow to these sacred cows.

I'm ignorant because you think i don't know anything of these bands? I've owned a couple Phish albums, been to a couple Phish Shows in the early to mid 90's, and i've heard enough Dead to form my own opinion that they're no better or worse than others in the scene such as Widespread Panic, Umphrey's McGee, String Cheese Incident, etc...

They all have great musicians. Big fucking deal.

The touchiness here is really infantile.

im not prohibiting you from doing anything my man--its a public forum;you can say what you want...

i just didn't want you to keep putting your foot in your mouth.

jam band is a tag like "indie" or "goth" that allows people to put diverse things into little boxes--cant we just agree that its rock?

do you consider your band a jam band? weather report? medeski martin and wood? miles davis?

salt peantuts salt peanuts......phil, i aint tryin to start a fight, i just want you to see the bigger picture

oh and i started this thread just to have silly arguments like this

Oh my gaaaawd.

:bitchslap:

jeezus boys.

Protective are we?

Sure it's rock, sure i'm in a jam band, and weather report, medeski martin and wood, soullive... all jam bands. Miles though? Jazz. Really Jammy jazz. But jazz. There's jammier.

I still don't believe i've put my foot in my mouth.

And as far as the disparity between not liking jam band music, and playing in a jam band...

The shit's much more interesting when you're trying to play in a scene where the players know their instruments and band members, and each other so well. It's definitely the most musically challenging thing I've ever done outside of classical.

Please understand, I'm not dissing the playing, i'm not dissing the fans, i'm not dissing the scene. I just don't have the attention span any longer to deal with it... back when i was in high school I had more patience, but even then, the ten minute mark was rough for me. And the allure of it then, for me, was the mastery of the intsruments, because I wanted to be a motherfucker instrumentalist too. Then i fell in love with songs, the ability to weave a story in a few short minutes with an economy of words and the ability to move the unwashed masses... musically unwashed, not literally. What's the crime in that?

You want to argue that Phil Lesh, or Mike Gordon are better or worse bassists than say Dave Schools or Rob Wasserman?

Cause I won't get into that argument, they are ALL motherfuckers. And they all play so well within their own bands.

Just this summer I got to share stages with Todd Nance, and Rob Wasserman, and they're amazing.

But these people write long ass songs, and there's no arguing that, so get over yourselves.


-Phil

p.s.

Hey elephantstone.

:hug:

Phil, you know more about music than most on this board, but this is just crap and you damn well know it, dawg.

widespread is waaay more redneck and southern rock than any of the bands, and the Dead actually did a lot of what Gram Parsons called "cosmic American Music" to lump all of these bands together is just not correct.

Go listen to the albums that Yail mentioned...I don't think any song tops 5 minutes. And they are all over the map in terms of what they play, country, blues soul, fucking tinges of gospel even. BTW, when Crosby came in to do some harmonies for American Beauty, he said of the Dead, 'We taught those guys how to sing, they taught us how to play," as a musician I think you of all people should realize what this statement really means.

Loog,
you can call it cosmic american music, or redneck southern rock, or whatever you please.

Why is it incorrect to lump these bands together?

It's all a matter of perspective, examine them closely, sure they're different.

Examine them under a larger scope, say... all music made in the last century, or even under a smaller scope, say all music post Elvis...

The minute differences blur together into a lot of similarities.

It's a genre bred on musical cross pollination, and again, i'm not disrespecting the talent required to do what they do.

So what gets your goat about me lumping them in with other talented musicians in that scene?

The fact that they came first? Seriously, what is it?

What makes it insulting?