so i've been to downtown nyc (well-organized), san fran (a bit sprawled-out and cut up by water, but not too bad), milwaukee (a bit clutter until near the lake) and chicago (cramped, but fairly logical) since july 2002, and i have to say that downtown boston is the most illogical, nuts throw-together of streets possible. it must takes months to figure that city out in terms of knowing how to go anywhere. pure crazy.

otherwise, mini trip to attend brother's wedding was fun. outside of (finally) going downtown boston, wife & i found time to drive up to salem (ma) and hampton beach (nh) from andover. nice enough country resparked out talks about moving to the BOS-NY area.

another nuts part of driving in the boston area are loops. whose idea was those? put one of those european circle things around an interstate-to-highway intersection? some people missed the wedding cuz the loop spit 'em out east instead of west.

and triangle intersections? it's like a T, but the joining street branchs out onto both sides at an angle, and that part of the main road bends to accomodate the intersecting street. weird

how could you leave out washington? boston's bad, but washington's just ridiculous.

never been to Bos but DC is a mess, agreed.

washington is very bad but since i have to deal with boston more often i could just scream. i have no idea what anyone was thinking when they built those streets. no sense what so ever. i have been lost in boston more than any other city in the country. it's a labrynth of driving hell.

in boston, you'd have more luck navigating with a divining rod than a map.

I went to school just outside of Boston & when I would go back to see clients I still couldn't find my way around town. My sense of direction sucks, but that city certainly doesn't help. At all.

Pittsburgh comes in fairly close, though. Just when I'd figure out where to go, one of those stupid bridges would be closed & I'd be totally screwed.

agreed; Boston makes me lose my shit--just straight up nonsensical.

i think boston models itself after london in this regard. i mean, to be fair, there have been people here since the early 1600s, so there probably wasn't a lot of planning. but even as a pedestrian the paucity of street signs is exasperating.

Yeah, DC's impossible

Numbers one way, letters the other, states run diagonal. 4 quadrants.

This is what I said after driving into and out of Boston for a fundraiser a few years ago:

"The best thing they could possibly do to this city is raze it and start again"

I definitely put pittsburgh second behind boston as the dumbest city layouts in this country, but at least you have a completely impossible landscape to blame for that.

Just went there this weekeend...Shit was insane trying to find the hotel...Stupid fucking city planners....

i actually do pretty well in pittsburgh, but those bridge and tunnel closures are the end of me. it was complete madness when the fort pitt tunnel was closed a few years ago. luckily, i've never had much to do beyond that.

a lot of bridges here (7 downtown) but they only open every now and then.

seattle has some f-ed up areas downtown as well

i'd also like to point out that downtown boston's nuts are bigger than yours.

But has the city sat on them?

are not! 8==D

i've been to dc capitol, but didn't really drive around downtown (much).

DC is just a grid, but if you drive in the right lane or get off on the wrong spoke of a circle you can get fucked and swoop off in the opposite direction you intended.

You also are ahead of the game if you just accept the fact that you will drive through a shitty neighborhood at one point in time or another.

yeah, and they're still wandering around trying to find the orpheum.

I know Boston like the back of my hand bc I have lived here so long but it IS totally annoying. There is the whole cow path theory but apparently it's not true.
YOu want to see REAL lack of city planning? Go to Bangkok.
Imagine Boston about 40 times bigger, filthy with about 25 times the traffic and no regard for lights, etc.

One of the first weekends I lived there, I decamped to Philly for some mongering with Ze Doktor, and I came back way late at night, and this was before I got glasses, so I took a left on 18th St, SE, instead of NW....WHOOPS.

In the words of Yail Bloor: "So you took a left, and ended up in Mogadishu?"

the nice thing about DC is that, as long as whatever you're doing is during the day, you can just park in the suburbs and take the metro. i try to avoid driving in the city as much as possible.

DC Metro is a beautiful thing.

except that it shuts down so early.

It's open till two-ish now, isn't it? Again, I don't go down there that often.

Another good thing about DC is that the buildings aren't overly tall, so you can see easy landmarks from different parts of town.

oh, i haven't been to DC since last summer. i just always remember leaving the 9:30 during encores to catch the last train on weeknights.

where was the wedding?