Health Care vote today

toots · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:15 am

kinda goes against the first-to-arrive, last-to-leave, scrappy conservative workin man ethic, dunnit?

seafoam · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:38 am

I can't imagine Repub politicos actually think they are doing themselves any good [unless they assume tea party goers are sole constituents].

harry · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:54 am

billy g Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

billy g Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.

There were a whole helluva lot of dummies who convinced themselves Obama would govern like a moderate and a centrist despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Where would you say he's governed to the left of where he campaigned?

I was agreeing with you.

The curious thing is that American public presuppositions are such that anyone can think that Obama is NOT a centrist. This healthcare bill was crafted by Big Pharma and (initially) the health insurance lobby. It's full of "free enterprisist" mentality... and mirrors Richard Nixon's proposals. That's the incredible thing that's happened since Reagan... the whole spectrum of the body politic was shifted far to the right. Indeed the specifics of this plan are "to the right" of what was proposed during the campaign.

Trust me kids, I know what leftist solutions would look like, and Obama remains a liberal Republican.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:05 am

And let's not forget that the great tax raiser and federal government expander Ronald Raygun himself signed into law the Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act:

Quote:

The Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act of 1988, the largest expansion of the program since the enactment of Medicare, included an outpatient prescription drug benefit and a cap on beneficiaries' out-of-pocket expenses, and expanded hospital and skilled nursing facility benefits. Medicaid began coverage of Medicare premiums and cost-sharing for Medicare beneficiaries with incomes below 100% of the federal poverty level, known as Qualified Medicare Beneficiaries (QMB). The U.S. Bipartisan Commission on Comprehensive Health Care (which became known as "Pepper" Commission after the late Congressman Claude Pepper of Florida) was established to assess the feasibility of a long-term care benefit under Medicare.

It was later repealed amidst an outcry from old people who didn't feel like they should have to pay extra for more benefits. Commies.

timmyjoe42 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:10 pm

And now they're all dead.

nobody · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:42 pm

harry Wrote:

billy g Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

billy g Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.

There were a whole helluva lot of dummies who convinced themselves Obama would govern like a moderate and a centrist despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Where would you say he's governed to the left of where he campaigned?

I was agreeing with you.

The curious thing is that American public presuppositions are such that anyone can think that Obama is NOT a centrist. This healthcare bill was crafted by Big Pharma and (initially) the health insurance lobby. It's full of "free enterprisist" mentality... and mirrors Richard Nixon's proposals. That's the incredible thing that's happened since Reagan... the whole spectrum of the body politic was shifted far to the right. Indeed the specifics of this plan are "to the right" of what was proposed during the campaign.

Trust me kids, I know what leftist solutions would look like, and Obama remains a liberal Republican.

This is what gets me. Anything that is not far, far right is someone considered coming from the crazy fringe left. Anything moderate from most of the world and most of US history is seen as crazy liberal nowadays.

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

nobody Wrote:

harry Wrote:

billy g Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

billy g Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.

There were a whole helluva lot of dummies who convinced themselves Obama would govern like a moderate and a centrist despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Where would you say he's governed to the left of where he campaigned?

I was agreeing with you.

The curious thing is that American public presuppositions are such that anyone can think that Obama is NOT a centrist. This healthcare bill was crafted by Big Pharma and (initially) the health insurance lobby. It's full of "free enterprisist" mentality... and mirrors Richard Nixon's proposals. That's the incredible thing that's happened since Reagan... the whole spectrum of the body politic was shifted far to the right. Indeed the specifics of this plan are "to the right" of what was proposed during the campaign.

Trust me kids, I know what leftist solutions would look like, and Obama remains a liberal Republican.

This is what gets me. Anything that is not far, far right is someone considered coming from the crazy fringe left. Anything moderate from most of the world and most of US history is seen as crazy liberal nowadays.

What gets me is that conservatives embrace the label of conservative and liberals run from the label of liberal. I didn't call him a crazy liberal or fringe. I just said he's not a moderate and he isn't.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

i'm a liberal and on most issues he's to the right of me. either that makes him a moderate or makes me a crazy liberal/fringe. ok we all know I'm fringe.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:45 pm

rparis74 Wrote:

i'm a liberal and on most issues he's to the right of me. either that makes him a moderate or makes me a crazy liberal/fringe. ok we all know I'm fringe.

Yeah, you're a fucking liberal whackjob.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:49 pm

Rod's one of them Limousine Libruls with his Belgian endive and his quiche-in-a-can.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

Quiche in a Can slayed at Portland Farmer's Market Fest '09

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:57 pm

They certainly did.

harry · **Posted:** Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:37 am

billy g Wrote:

What gets me is that conservatives embrace the label of conservative and liberals run from the label of liberal. I didn't call him a crazy liberal or fringe. I just said he's not a moderate and he isn't.

Sez who? I am a liberal, a progressive. Proud of it. Claim it. Most of my colleague agree. And that's not just California, but "libruls" in Conn, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Arizona, New Mexico, Washington, Oregon, Australia, Pennsyvania, New Zealand ... friends in all those places who proudly describe themselves as liberals. What's true is that "conservative" SUV Christians have attempted to dominate the public sphere... the goose-stepping talking points crew. "Democrat" not "Democratic" as an adjective etc.

So the struggle for language, for meaning, continues... I on this backwater bulletin board challenge the notion that Liberal is shameful and Conservative is free and easy living large in the American mindspace. Bullshit.

nobody · **Posted:** Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:07 am

I'd maybe venture to say that the media plays a role in stigmatizing the word liberal...but oh that's right, the liberal elite control the media or whatever...my bad.

discostu · **Posted:** Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:40 pm

It's pretty easy to breakdown in the public sphere:

Liberal/Dem/Green = pussy
Conservative/Repug = non-pussy

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:01 pm

nobody Wrote:

I'd maybe venture to say that the media plays a role in stigmatizing the word liberal...but oh that's right, the liberal elite control the media or whatever...my bad.

People believe, see and interpret media bias based on which side they support.

seafoam · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:00 am

Senator GAR in 2010! Wrote:

nobody Wrote:

I'd maybe venture to say that the media plays a role in stigmatizing the word liberal...but oh that's right, the liberal elite control the media or whatever...my bad.

People believe, see and interpret media bias based on which side they support.

True. And, it is the media exploiting, exaggerating, and inflaming vigorously in support of one's bias or against the other's.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:05 am

seafoam Wrote:

Senator GAR in 2010! Wrote:

nobody Wrote:

I'd maybe venture to say that the media plays a role in stigmatizing the word liberal...but oh that's right, the liberal elite control the media or whatever...my bad.

People believe, see and interpret media bias based on which side they support.

True. And, it is the media exploiting, exaggerating, and inflaming vigorously in support of one's bias or against the other's.

And, stupid people for listening or caring. Me included.

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:16 am

Looks like Star Parker's "Uncle Sam's Plantation" email is making the rounds again. Just got it from my mom.

I think I'll wait until Easter Sunday lunch to lay into her.

seafoam · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:18 am

Yeah, well, me too,on occasion frothing at the mouth screaming, "I can't believe they just said that!"

Stone · **Joined:** Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:27 am **Posts:** 1562

Now Obama's pushing off-shore drilling. This guy's either an enigma wrapped in a riddle, a complete liar, or had no clue what he was in for when he was running for the presidency.

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:26 am

Or he's making concessions for a bigger picture plan.

discostu · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:34 am

Rick Derris Wrote:

Or he's making concessions for a bigger picture plan.

Derris, there's no room for optimism on Obner.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:34 am

Stone Wrote:

had no clue what he was in for when he was running for the presidency.

But I think there were 43 guys before him in the exact same position before him, fwiw

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:03 pm

Rick Derris Wrote:

Or he's making concessions for a bigger picture plan.

It's getting to the point where he can just take the better republican ideas, use them without their endorsement (and over their shouts of "Tyranny") and just sorta whistle on his way to work.

Health Care vote today

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