So its not about personal opinion and taste? I should have said its empirically wrong then that the flaming lips are the total package of sex, swagger, sadness and beauty? I'm not attacking you or the flaming lips, but they are one of the last bands that would come to my mind when thinking of any of those descriptors let alone the combination of all four.

The "ha ha" wasn't meant to make fun of you or your taste. To the extent that i'm laughing at anyone in particular, its at tanner for spending a weekend trying to decipher what you meant in your comments when to me its pretty simple that you just don't like "regular rock" as much as some of the board. I'm not a huge fan of most of the bands associated with that label either. There's nothing wrong with that, but its hard to argue that its not mostly your or my personal taste. You seem to acknowledge as much in your like of deerhunter and not the strokes. I've had similar arguments with Radcliffe, Gar and bloor about the strokes. No one would argue that they are breaking new ground. You either hear some "magic" which separates them from dozens of other bands or you don't. Its often no more complicated than that.

And really, don't take this stuff so personally. There were more than three or four of us attacking radcliffe in chatzy this morning for not thinking 70's era Bowie was very special. I used to get taken to task all the time for arguing the merits of some "lost classic" that others would think was just a run-of-the-mill 60's or 70's album. Who cares though? Shouldn't people be passionate about what they like. We're not all going to like the same things.

I don't get why you or anyone else thinks they have to continually point this out to me. God knows I'm not the only person here to make blanket statements about what's good and bad.

Of course it's largely just personal taste, but I don't think that's 100% of it. Value is not totally relative. There are some absolutes. We can debate what those are as we did here for a little while.

Mick broadened his categorization by naming it as a combination of those four things, and as such I conceded that I could relate to his point by mentioning the only recent bands I could think of that met that criteria. I could defend those choices, but naturally they're subject to taste. I don't know why the whole discussion has to be reduced to a matter of taste based on that, though. We could pretty much end every discussion on here that way because you can't debate personal preference. If that's all there is to it, we might as well stop all pretense of debate around here altogether, which has almost happened anyway. Every time there's any disagreement, someone just needs to step in and point out that the whole thing's just a matter of personal taste and end it right there.

Who said that you can't debate personal preference? You can debate it all you want. You should defend bands you like and offer critiques of bands that you think suck as should others of similar or different taste. I don't see how the fact that they are merely opinions inherently makes a discussion any less interesting. The fact that we've had the same discussion dozens of times over the years makes it less interesting maybe, but the nature of opinions themselves doesn't.

Don't try to tell me that when you dismiss any recent "stonesy" or "reg rock" music based on a lack of originality and then dismiss the importance of originality in a band you like that you are exploring any absolutes.

You have a right to your opinions drink but let's not make this out to be more than it was. After several pages of discussion, we ended up with your opinion that neither deerhunter or current "reg rock" bands are original but deerhunter in your opinion is interesting and "reg rock" is mostly boring. We already knew that going in.

remember this thread? it may come in handy sometime soon.

01 Jack Drag - Soft Songs LP: Aviating 2000
02 Jack Drag - The Sun Inside 2002
03 Irving - Death in the Garden, Blood on the Flowers 2006
04 Dandy Warhols - Thirteen Tales From Urban Bohemia 2000
05 Moonbabies - The Orange Billboard 2004
06 Kingsbury Manx - The Kingsbury Manx 2000
07 Moonbabies - Moonbabies at the Ballroom 2007
08 Grandaddy - The Sophtware Slump 2000
09 The M's - Real Close Ones 2008
10 Electric President - S/T 2006
11 Starlight Mints - The Dream That Stuff Was Made Of 2000
12 Hudson Bell - When the Sun Is the Moon 2005
13 Broken Social Scene - You Forgot It in People 2002
14 Albert Hammond Jr. - Yours To Keep 2006
15 New Pornographers - Twin Cinema 2005
16 Submarines - Honeysuckle Weeks 2008
17 Electric President - Sleep Well 2008
18 Fanfarlo - Reservoir 2009
19 Cloud Cult - Feel Good Ghosts (Tea-Partying Through Tornadoes) 2008
20 Modest Mouse - The Moon & Antarctica
21 Cat Power - You Are Free 2003
22 Radical Face - Ghost 2007
23 MGMT - Oracular Spectacular 2008
24 Blitzen Trapper - Wild Mountain Nation 2007
25 Notwist - Neon Golden 2002
26 Rogue Wave - Descended Like Vultures 2005
27 Augie March - Strange Bird 2002
28 Glands - The Glands 2000
29 Deathray Davies - Midnight at the Black Nail Polish Factory 2003
30 Delgados - Universal Audio 2004

my top 30 of 2000's in no particular order

John Frusciante - Shadows Collide with People 2004
John Frusciante - Curtains 2004
John Frusciante - To record only water for ten days 2001
John Frusciante - Inside of emptiness 2004
Grant Lee Phillips - Virginia Creeper 2004
Grant Lee Phillips - Strangelet 2007
Idlewild - 100 broken windows 2000
Bruce Cockburn - Lifes short call now 2006
5440 - Northern Soul 2008
Broken Social Scene - Forgot it in people 2002
Modest Mouse - Moon & Antarctica 2000
Modest Mouse - We were dead before the ship even sank 2007
Jewel - This Way 2001
Brandi Carlile - The Story 2007
Hayden - In Field & Town 2008
Disturbed - The Sickness 2000
Disturbed - Ten Thousand Fists 2005
Son Volt - the Search 2007
WIlco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot 2002
The National - Alligator 2005
Jigsaw Soul - Bound to collide 2008
Femi Kuti - Day by day 2008
Guns and Roses - Chinese Democracy 2008
New Pornographers - Twin Cinema 2005
REM - Reveal 2001
Daft Punk - Discovery 2001
Enigma - Voyageur 2003
New Order - Waiting for the sirens call 2005
Bran Van 3000 - Discosis 2001
Mudcrutch - s/t 2008

four john frusciante albums?

yes i was debating on making it 6 - the empyrean and ataxia are also excellent

Dude released SIX (!) albums in 2004?

that is one really fucking strange list

well a couple were EPs and two were with other bands i think

too bad that jewel album got in the way

Oh man

Zing.

On a separate note, I am REALLY digging the We Were Promised Jetpacks album.