As usual Rads nails it. I find it sorta surprising that Crack and Cotton give it a 10, but I can never REALLY peg those dudes' tastes.

Holland, 1945 is insanely awesome, tho.

I would have complained, too. That song is like 8 minutes long.

Yeah, Dylan's range sucks. His ability to compose songs that transcend is ridiculous in comparison to Mangum. Not even close to being in the same class. I mean, purely on the merits of the songwriting, I can't even take your comment seriously. Vocalizing talents...OK, there's definitely something there. But song-for-song, melody-for-melody, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find *anyone* who trumps Dylan, let alone a guy who released 1 cohesive album and another collection of - I'd call them unfinshed - tunes.

It's a good album, but not 10 worthy. The charts seems to fit a bit more. I gave it a 7 i think and that sounds about right.

i didnt like it much at the time - maybe I should give it another chance

Aaahhhh, but the songs do transcend.
For me they do.
They move me and make me feel... actually, in a way that most Dylan songs don't.

Now, I am not saying that his cultural significance is equivalent to that of Bob Dylan. But art is in perception. And from my vantage point, desipte quantity of output, Jeff Mangum is every bit the equal of Bob Dylan in quality.

And the Jittery Joe's set... I love it. It brings the songs into an entirey new light for me. And I do find that light very flattering.

I have a 14 year old niece who says the same thing about Good Charlotte.

And while I disagree.
She has every right.

Maybe her high school paper would rate their record a 10.0.

Upon reflection, my chart vote of 9 obviously was made while under the influence of Thorazine and Thunderbird, struggling for some cred with my indie kidz. I'm convinced now that Jeff Mangum is this generation's Skip Spence. Seriously.

Yes, she does have every right. And, subjectively speaking, she is 100% correct. And yet we all know she is wrong. So there's the quandary; you think Mangum is equal to Dylan, and in your world you're right, but you're also dead wrong. When thinking critically, you've got to take into account more perspectives than your own.

Heard it once, and 'didnt get it'.

who cares

When MarkClark was young / he was the King of Carrot Flowers...

I also have a lot more experience listening to music than your 14 year old niece, particularly, the type of music about which we are arguing.

While I do defer to many people on this board as having broader knowledge than myself, I do not think that anyone would argue that I do not know music.

Dylan has a peculiar talent for writing songs that fit how his voice is at a particular moment in time. First time I heard Nashville Skyline I couldn't believe he was actually convincingly crooning.

Steve

As far as the album I think I rated it a 7 and I'll stand by that.

Steve

In my opinon, knowing music is meaningless. I'm sure Randy Jackson knows music, but his opinion doesn't count for crap in my book. But I love your heart driven opinions. They're refreshing.

At any given time that is my favorite Dylan record - that or Blood On the Tracks

I'm certainly not making the argument that you don't know music, Todd - I'm just saying that one's personal perspective means bupkis to anybody but oneself. And that if you put the appreciation and worth of all art down to simple personal perspective, then my 14 year old niece's argument is as valid as yours.

I was arguing this point not long ago on this very board (Green Day, Good Charlotte et al versus Tom Waits). Music appreciation is completely solipsistic.

Which is the truth.
But on this board, we thrive on arguements like these.
And yes, I did contradict myself. But, not really.

it's a 10 in my book

I'll stand by my 8; its a ver, very good album but nowhere near the realm of a 10.

And Todd, while I certainly respect your opinions and your passion and especially that you are a musician, if you think Jeff Mangum and Bob Dylan are even in the same HEMISPHERE, you need to find a new neurologist. (mine is quite good but you would have to come to Atlanta)

My opinion on Mangum is completely skewed though because I witnessed him more than once drunkenly butt in to otherwise good Olivia Tremor Control shows; doing things like banging on a floor tom and attempting to harmonize with Will and Bill---BADLY.

Even though this is tongue-in-cheek, I agree. It's a fantastic album, and one of my personal faves, but I can definitely see how people would dislike it.



Hmmmmm.....

You are all crazy. Of course it is a ten.

Can you think of an album that hits you as viscerally as Aeroplane? No, you can not. You can't dissect this album or argue about the chord structures or any of that bullshit. The sum of all of the wonderful parts--from Mangum absolutely raging against his voice to try to stay near key, to the repetitive nonsensical lyrics that make perfect sense, to the motherfucking singing saw-- are greater than the whole. The album to me is proof of one of the fundamental principles of art. Namely, that abstract communication can be more powerful and meaningful than direct communication.

If I ranked albums by the number of chills they have sent down my spine (which I probably should), this album is number one, easy. And I will not let any playa-hatin' undie rock backlash bullshit rain on my NMH parade.