bonds is far from alone bitches. does that make him right - no - but it does seem odd to single him out so much.

ok, fuck Sosa, Palmeiro, and McGwire also!

its a lot more than that, my friend. wonder what % of the top 50-100 HR hitters over the past 10 years were on the juice. if someone like palmeiro is (last guy i expected) then it has to be pretty much all of em. thome (precipitous drop-off), albert belle (injuries), frank thomas (injuries and drop off), griffey (injuries and drop-off), canseco and giambi obviously, bagwell (injuries and drop off), juan gonzalez (ditto), piazza (ditto), larry walker (ditto), jeff kent?, castilla?, luis gonzalez?, chipper?

only guys that keep truckin and may be clean - a-rod, manny, delgado, jim edmonds

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hihr1.shtml

Larry Walker only hit 40 once, and that was in Colorado. Thome has only really dropped off one year, right? I don't know if they are clean or not, but I wouldn't toss them in just yet.

Also, god knows how old some of the Dominican players are. So did Gonzalez drop off at 32 or 35?

I'm not saying steroids are a non-factor. Too many teams and not enough pitchers has also added to the jump in numbers.

The reason Bonds gets singled out is because he's the only one with 700 home runs. He's also transformed quite noticeably over the years. I really doubt that Aaron, Ruth, Mays, Frank Robinson or Jimmie Foxx were that chemically enhanced. Mickey Mantle was, but probably not so much in his favor.

Mark McGwire? Fuck him. No doubt in my mind.

sosa - no doubt in my mind.

Also, what PITCHERS were on the juice? Look at Clemens..you think dude bulked up like that randomly?

Oh, and Bonds gets single out cos HE'S AN ASSHOLE, R.

fuck all of em.. getting paid millions of dollars to play a kids game for a living.....

what about teachers?!?!?


my 5th grade teacher got noticably bigger over the course of the year...but of course, that was because he ate donuts all day long..but still!

Oh yeah, him too.

I was surprised at the whole Palmeiro thing, but from the way he keeps digging deeper and deper, fuck him. Just 'fess up. It sucks, but shit man, tell it like it is. "I'm 77 years old, my body hurts, I just wanted to make a couple more years cause I love the damn game so much that I won't know what to do with myself after I quit."

Babe Ruth bulked up metaphorically through segregation.

imagine if the Rock n' Roll HOF had a rule about performance enhancing drugs.

that's the first time I've laughed out loud today.

A league of all white players does exclude some great players, but one thing I love about baseball is that it is a game that relies a good deal on individual accomplishment. So while Ruth may not have had numbers as gaudy, or wouldn't have run away with every home run crown, integration is unlikely to diminish his career totals all that much, especially home runs.

you don't think taking 25% (just a random guess) of the top players is going to make things much easier?

he might have still been the best, and NO ONE can touch the fact that he was one of the top pitchers AND top hitters. But it's interesting to think about what he would have been like if he were playing against all the best players and not just the white ones.

I'm not saying that the talent pool wasn't diluted by segregation. But how many great black pitchers would have faced Ruth often enough to really put a hurt on his numbers?

He hit 714 home runs. None of those are playable balls (well, maybe a couple, but that's negligible), so the only way to get that total down is to keep the ball in the park. It's basically a one-on-one play. There's not much any other player, outside of the opposing pitcher, can do to stop a home run. Even with the best black pitchers, I'd be willing to bet he still would have put up well over 600.

If he were surrounded by a league of the best players regardless of skin color, he might not have as many RBI (assuming better run producers in the lineup with him) or as many doubles or runs scored (assuming better arms in the OF or better fielders, maybe). He would still be head and shoulders above mortal ballplayers, though.

I bet any fucking hitter in the game's history would like to Gherig batting behind him.

Just look at this lineup then try to argue with Fu's point.

(Which I have never really heard articulated in such a way)

Although, I think for Monger Hall of Fame, Josh Gibson might even get in before the Babe