Though not absolutely perfect, the airline industry is probably the best example. (I didn't read the whole article).

Child, are you high? The airline industiry is a morass of mis-calculations and intereference by government, curious federal government money bailouts, and huge corporations serially seeking cover under chapter 11 bankruptcy. In this case deregulation equals chaos and disfunction.

If you can pay for it, why the fuck should the government be able to limit what you buy? That's like saying that Lexuses are too nice, so now all you can buy is a Hyundai...I see yer point, but it won't past muster.



This, however, would pass muster, if there was such a thing as leadership in this country. And the way to do it is pretty easy: If you don't think its possible, then you don't believe in this country, you don't believe in the people of this country, and it is YOU who is UNAMERICAN.

If I ran the DNC, we'd be at @300 congressman and 60 Senators

i don't care about how nice your car is. i care about how it effects our country's ability to be self-sufficient. it has nothing to do with stifling rich ass pansies who want fancy cars, it's about the good of the nation and the FACT THAT OIL IS A LIMITED RESOURCE. it will run out and we can't afford to be wasting it. no one can, not even assholes that can afford H2s.

Kucinich's proposed Act has a nice feature where "any attempt to increase prices to recover the lost revenue in taxes is simply taxed at 100% making the price increase worthless."

And they'd all be legislating and voting like Lieberman.

How's his voting record compare to say Sam Nunn or John Breaux? AND, IYHO, would that be better than what we have now, or would you, at least subconsciously, rather have the government we have now, because you get to bitch all you want without doing anything to fix it?

CMan -- your heart's in the right place, but your head is a bit misguided.

Holy shit.

Should the government also tell me in how large a house I can live, since smaller equals less of a heating burden? Maybe they should tell us in what climates we're allowed to live. I mean, if people didn't live where it's cold, they wouldn't have to heat their homes.

I drive two cars, one gets about 15 mpg, the other about 8 mpg. I wouldn't want to change either one.

if it's for the common good and that can be demonstrably (is that a word?) proven, i'm for it. what would be bad about having only extremely fuel efficient cars on the market? someone please enlighten me.

if the only issue is that you wouldn't be able to choose a less efficient car, i say who cares. or if you're concerned that it sets a bad precedent and slippery slope, the government already regulates emissions of your car and so much other shit...

It costs about a fifth to fly from one city to another than it did under airline regulation. Air service is exponentially more available, in terms of the routes that are flown, and the number of seats in the air.

yeah, but think of how much more fuel is wasted on superfluous flights so that you can have a choice.

It's a little thing we enjoy called freedom.

It's more complex than we often want to make it. If Lieberman were in office we'd have troups in Teheran. Both my head and heart say that's wrong.

Fake arguments. It already does. It's called zoning and urban planning.

I think you are wrong on both counts. Now, if we DIDN'T have troops in Baghdad, troops in Tehran might be the right thing.

War IS sometimes the answer.

Yeah, but there's a price you have to pay for freedom says Bush. If that price is driving a more fuel efficient car, I'd rather pay that then get shipped off to Iraq to get shot at by some Arabs. I'm already sacrificing enough of my freedoms to the government. How about some rational ones for a change?

This illusion that you should be "free" to destroy the environment and our national security is exactly what motivates the gas industry to keep renewable energy from advancing as fast as it could.

KIND OF. But you can move someplace else that has less of those laws, yaknow?

Jesus, with you two comrades and Borg around here, we need to start looking out for Hoover's infiltrators.

Actually, this is further evidence to support the answer. In this case, deregulation took the big fluffy pillow away from "big business". The consumers have cashed in, and this particular big business has taken it in the shorts.

Granted, the deregulation has only been partial. Normally, the industry would have consolidated by now--but legacy regulation (most notably the Railway Labor Act (yes, the airlines are governed by law written 100 years ago FOR TRAINS!!!) and paranoia on the part of the DOJ have ensured about 10 large companies just limp along.

Name me one major US industry in which you have more than 3 major American companies.

I'm still waiting for someone to actually enlighten me.

Wait till you get a real job in the real world, Mr. Car Chooser Authority Guy.

I'm going to be avoiding that for the rest of my life by teaching English in random foreign countries around the world.

Well, Talladega would look pretty damned stupid with a bunch of Prius' puttering 'round and 'round.

This is exactly my point.. I think the number of you who make these "live free or die" libertarian arguments are in most respects are as idealistic and deluded as my own sentimental attachments to social justice.

Mega-corporate techno-captialism and sytemic isomprhism has changed all the rules... there are systemic laws that supercede y'alls wishful thinking about the possibility of laissez faire capitalism to solve its own problems. Laissez faire worked in the open air... we now live under water.

I wish I could get you and Loogar, sit you both down with a couple of bottles of tequila, and talk to you for about ten hours. I think I could convert you, you have brains.

That's not very forward thinking. Over here, we're all moving to Spanish. Ain't you heard?

Not after tequila, I don't Make it Cointreau and I have a fighting chance. Tequila's on my blacklist.

An you're dead right about the idealism. However, arguing over the practical isn't nearly as stimulating.