chipping away at their legitimacy and political power over time.

or throwing urine bags at their leaders.

whatever.

I mean really, if rads and I actually agree about something, it has to be a fucking good idea.

Well I'm not gonna be the first one to do one, anyway.

Somebody step up.

I vote Cap'n Squirggle

I think I've blazed enough trails here thank you



Also I am not an artist.

I think that no other religion is depicted in a more negative light in America than Islam, and I think on a whole Americans are the least respectful to Muslims. My feelings on this is give them a fucking break. Other religions don't, at least to my knowledge, don't specifically ban the visual representation of their religious figures so it seems to me to be on a somewhat different league than how they represent other religious figures. I am against censorship and believe that people should be able to say and do what they want to, but I wish that they would have some goddamn tact and not try to be proactive just because they can. Plus South Park has been getting steadily less funny.

That's such total bullshit, I think people are afraid to say how they really feel about Islam or are clueless about it but are quick to make a Jew, Catholic or Southern Baptist joke. Jay Leno is not making a fucking Islam joke but he'll "bravely" make a joke about any other faith. Gimme a fucking break.

there is not NEARLY enough making fun of islamic fundamentalism

Which is worse? Showing an image of the prophet Mohommed, or depicting him as a Furry?

As the Hitchens article notes, the banning of depictions was to prevent idolatry and keep the focus on Allah not Mohammed. That's why banning Mohammed in western art is a recent thing, and no death threats were ever issued against Dante.

And those threats are the crux of this issue. Sure, I'm fairly anti-religion in general so I get pissed about christians trying to legislate their faith and I get sick of being told things like "have a blessed day," when I bought some shoes last night. There are a bunch of ways in which certain faiths try to push their ideas in the public sphere and that is their right as much as it is my right to disagree with it and talk against it. However, no other faith we are talking about is having a serious problem with violently attacking those outside their faith on a regular basis when some tennent of faith is broken. That act alone obliterates any semblance of mutual respect and makes this sort of thing far worse than what you see out of other faiths.

And yes, I realize this is a small minority of fanatics as far as the faith goes. But, we should in no way be capitulating to their freakish and unreasonable demands. Doing so only gives them a stronger voice and helps to drown out the more moderate voices from the faith. When we make allowances for these violent nutjobs, we give them greater importance than they deserve and suddenly through threat of violence they start being the public spokespeople for a major world religion instead of the same people who follow the faith and don't threaten to kill people.

And let's not even start about human rights violations of women in the name of Islam. Makes the misogynistic fundamentalist christians look pretty damn progressive. Religions have the right to believe what they want. They do not have the right to threaten and attack others and as far as I am concerned they do not have the right to abuse half their population for having a vagina.

I'm in a Muslim country right now where you HAVE to be a Muslim to be counted as a full citizen. Having said that, they're all pretty nice people. But fuck them anyway. And fuck South Park. And the pope. And The Family Graham. And anyone that Bloor missed in his earlier post.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

Well said.

However, if we're really interested in spreading relevant criticisms of Islam, or just extremist/totalitarian Islam, that isn't best achieved with insulting caricatures of Muhammed, any more than effective criticisms of the Christian church have come about through demeaning depictions of Christ. In part, I think the rise in Muslim extremism has been facilitated and aided by the perceived "evil" and hypocrisy of Western society, being able to easily paint us as a real threat and affront to their beliefs. On the one hand, yeah, they just need to learn to deal with that. You can't force your beliefs on others. And yet we'll never reach out to any of those people, or even be able to work with moderate Muslims as allies, if we insist on being blatantly and crassly disrespectful of what they hold sacred.

It's not that I think that Comedy Central and Yale did the right thing with their censorship choices (Yale is far more disappointing than Comedy Central), but it's debatable as to whether or not this is where this battle should be fought.

OHG ANGD HEEG A REAGLG AMERGIKANG.

I did think of fuck tards like him when I wrote that part. Biggest difference I see is in those sorts of cases, the religious leaders from his part of the argument at least know enough to distance themselves as much as possible and at least claim they are anti-violence and they denounce such actions publicly instead of claiming what he did was right and that more is to come if their wishes aren't followed. Some of them may think that, but they avoid publicly saying it and they are generally marginalized. I totally agree though that those sorts of domestic acts of violence are every bit as much terrorist acts as acts committed in the name of Islam.

And no I don't think disturbing images is the golden ticket to solving this problem. but I think there is something to be said to stand up and say you cannot intimidate us through threats of violence to not do so. And if major outlets are so terrified of this thing as to capitulate at every turn, which seems to be the case, a more grass roots approach isn't exactly a bad idea either.

Being "respectful" isn't the problem. Southpark has targeted every religion. Jesus has been a regular character since day 1 of that show. Why should Islam get the kid gloves treatment? Because they're overly sensitive about something that isn't even about sacred but rather idolatry. This is just a pawn in their game.

Work as allies? You really think the Taliban isn't going to sit at the diplomacy table because of a cartoon on cable television?

It's funny that you've already lined them up as enemies when these are AMERICANS making threats.

Maybe if we were more respectful of Westboro Baptist Church's views on homosexuality, they wouldn't be so offensive

You seem to have completely misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't know if that's my fault or yours, but I'm not sure how I can clarify it any more.

Islam is 500 years younger than Christianity, and despite the fact that it exists in the modern world, it seems to truly be 500 years behind. It would be great if it could catch up all at once, but I don't think that's a realistic expectation.

I said this once a long time ago on this very board. But I've come to think it's utter bullshit and an excuse. Islam has regressed (at the fringes I know) over its historical arc.

I know exactly what you were trying to say - we're stuck in a conundrum of our Western ideals, as correct as they might be, preventing us from building a working relationship with Islamic countries, which is necessary to move forward towards ultimate peace.

I've stated that I'm a catholic on this board many times. I believe. However, shit like this, makes me move more and more towards secularism every day where I say fuck all to all religions.

Why would this make you more critical of other religions? What did the Hindus do wrong here?

Problem with Hindus?

Little thing called the caste system comes to mind.

CHRIST ALMIGHTY

You asked.

No, I didn't.

No, caste system wasn't specific to this incident, but I believe the original point was how the more you look at religion the more fucked up it gets so universal examples were valid.