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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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contradiction Wrote:
YES YES YES


what happened to your "you should hear this" threads


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Dalen Wrote:
I say we just go up to Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules (1979–1982). Honestly, after that, it gets pretty bad.


there's some "interesting" stuff on born again, too

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:05 pm 
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I haven't sat down yet this morning but am spinning this soon. If the thread keeps going I say we go right to '95.

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:25 pm 
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FT Wrote:
Dalen Wrote:
I say we just go up to Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules (1979–1982). Honestly, after that, it gets pretty bad.


there's some "interesting" stuff on born again, too


a few bits and pieces, but this is when i began really struggling with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:35 pm 
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frostingspoon
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listening via Grooveshark (this Black Sabbath isn't on Spotify, btw how are things added to Spotify?)
http://grooveshark.com/#/album/Black+Sabbath/179420

As someone who still likes heavy, slow, sludgy, riff-filled rock/metal, it simply doesn't get much better than Sabbath. I'm sure there have been many articles written about Iommi's drop tuning, but I'm guessing it was inspired by the grungy, smoke-filled shit-hole of a city they started in?


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:55 pm 
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discostu Wrote:
I'm sure there have been many articles written about Iommi's drop tuning, but I'm guessing it was inspired by the grungy, smoke-filled shit-hole of a city they started in?


he had a few fingertips chopped off in a machine shop accident at a sheet metal factory when he was 17 or 18. because of this, he was forced to cover his fingertips with plastic covers, and down-tune his strings so it was easier for him to play. that's where the heaviness came in.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:57 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Yeah, I seem to remember reading about the nubby fingers when I first became a fan at age 14 or so. I was really into Satan back then (Slayer, Danzig, Black Sabbath)


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Go Platinum
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I'll pitch in but only for the albums I actually own and I have 2 Black Sabbath albums, the self titled and Paranoid.

1. Black Sabbath (7+)
Nice horror atmospherics and then at 4:50 you can almost imagine little devils or fairey folk dancing around a mushroom! Then doing magical and horrible things (cue Iommi solo). At over 6 minutes though I think its a bit long winded and loses its initial impact.

2. The Wizard (6+)
Harmonica lends it surprisingly bluesy edge. Some nice drumming from Ward on this track. I think this is a good example of flaw in Black Sabbath's music. You either hook into the guitar riffs or you find it all a bit monotonous and dull. Not much song craft in this one, just doesn't hang together.

3. Behind The Wall of Sleep (7)
Osbourne as a vocalist is really quite limited, he does over the top horror atmospherics well (as in the title track) but other wise not only fails to shine but hampers the music with his flat delivery. The band is pretty tight behind him though but there is something lacking in this music.

4. N.I.B (7)
Too many sludgy notes but when Iommi extends himself it lifts the song. Ward stars again, some excellent drumming.

5. Evil Woman (6-)
Pretty bad pub rock. So flat, muffled and bassy it sounds like its being played through a layer of mattresses.

6. Sleeping Village (7-)
Is that a jews harp I hear? Throwing in time changes for the sake of it I think. Iommi's riff is pretty evil sounding though. Bit of a Hendrix influence coming through on this one at least on the more energetic and alive sections.

7. The Warning (7)
This track has a bit of bounce, a bit of swagger, something missing from much of the music on this album. It's got its cock out in a Led Zeppelin-y way and isn't just mopping around trying to be creepy.

8. Wicked World (7)
Led Zeppelin even more apparent here with some Iommi showcasing.

OVERALL : This, to my ears, sounds like an at times competent but hardly earth shattering late sixties British blues rock band. The trade mark sound of Sabbath, Iommi's guitar riffing isn't really fully developed here and the real star of the show is Bill Ward who's drumming is consistently excellent, keeps some tracks going when they are in danger of collapse and provides most of the highlights. The production is poor and although some bands benefit from primitive recording I don't think this band was one of them. Ozzy's vocals are for the most part also poor. The closest the album comes to being extraordinary are the first few moments of the opening track but even then the effect is stretched to the limit and loses its impact. There are hints of innovation but overall I find this album a little work-a-day. K-RANK (6.75)

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:31 pm 
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i'll do a track by track tonight, when i'm drunk.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:34 pm 
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i think the overall highlight of this album though is Iommi's guitar tone. that shit changed the fucking world, like it or not.

i think the production on this album is perfectly fitting for their debut. it sounds live, slightly primitive, open, and it gave them something to build upon.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:53 pm 
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TEH MACHINE
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I downloaded the Black Box so Black Sabbath "...has a revised track order as it includes both the song "Evil Woman" from the original European LP—deleted from North American editions because of copyright problems—and "Wicked World", which was substituted for it.

Black Sabbath
The Wizard
Wasp / Behind the Wall of Sleep / Bassically / N.I.B.
Wicked World
A Bit of Finger / Sleeping Village / Warning
Evil Woman

I jotted down a few points this afternoon:

Black Sabbath - I like this, not sure how often I'll want to hear this but I could see it kind of creeping around and begging to be played this fall. Clearly this isn't summery music, or if it is to some people, maybe it's summer evening music. I'm trying to figure out when one would want to hear this song. It's certainly not party music by any stretch. This doesn't seem that communal to me more of a solitary, going insane kind of solitary experience. Richard Rameriez probably played this as come down music after 'Night Prowler' got him going. Also, Ozzy doesn't really sound like Ozzy yet to my ears, he actually sounds older on this album than he does now, like some sort of vocal Dorian Grey. I get why this gets the ground zero tag.

The Wizard - I actually don't disagree that they sound like a lot of heavy blues being played at the time. While not necessarily by-the-numbers, it's reminiscent and slightly more interesting. Good stuff.

Wasp/Behind The Wall Of Sleep/Bassically/N.I.B. - Fucking loved all of this.

Wicked World - Also dig this as well. Kind of hard not too, at least for me. It was the second time I was reminded of The Doors during this album ('Black Sabbath' - 'Riders on the Storm'; Of course, I realize that this album predates the LA Woman album by several years, but it still sprung to mind) and Wicked World and The Soft Parade's Wild Child. Freakily similar to these ears, with the former obviously much heavier though. Both were composed in 1969 so I assume that sound was in the ether somewhere and Robbie and Tony both clutched it.

A Bit of Finger/Sleeping Village/Warning - This was pretty impressive as well.

Evil Woman - The vaguely funkiness of this track is kind of surprising. It's not 'The Crunge' but it works.

Played it 3x today and enjoyed it more with each listen, you catch a few more qualities that you missed the last time. I guess I'm still a little puzzled why Black Sabbath, outside of the title track and cover, is supposed to be so evil. Lyrically it doesn't feel all that evil. Even 'Evil Woman' is really evil, she's just loose, possibly with Satan or an African slave (the whips and the 'blackness'). What stands out is the incredibly slow & heavy groove. Pleasantly surprised indeed, although perhaps I shouldn't be. This isn't exactly a hundred miles from the blooze of Zep which I love. Only a whole lot heavier and I don't think they stole anything from Willie Dixon.

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:08 pm 
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Death

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On a side note, for years and years my best friend insisted that Iommi's last name was pronounced "Lammy." Why, we'll never know, but boy do I remind him constantly that he's a dumbass.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:37 pm 
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frostingspoon

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Dalen Wrote:
A Bit Of Finger/Sleeping Village is sleazy blues covered in dope smoke. The riff that comes in at 1:37, and then Geezer at 3:46. Ugly.


i say this every time we have these threads, but that's where the fun starts.

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:31 pm 
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DumpJack Wrote:
I downloaded the Black Box so Black Sabbath "...has a revised track order as it includes both the song "Evil Woman" from the original European LP—deleted from North American editions because of copyright problems—and "Wicked World", which was substituted for it.

Black Sabbath
The Wizard
Wasp / Behind the Wall of Sleep / Bassically / N.I.B.
Wicked World
A Bit of Finger / Sleeping Village / Warning
Evil Woman

I jotted down a few points this afternoon:

Black Sabbath - I like this, not sure how often I'll want to hear this but I could see it kind of creeping around and begging to be played this fall. Clearly this isn't summery music, or if it is to some people, maybe it's summer evening music. I'm trying to figure out when one would want to hear this song. It's certainly not party music by any stretch. This doesn't seem that communal to me more of a solitary, going insane kind of solitary experience. Richard Rameriez probably played this as come down music after 'Night Prowler' got him going. Also, Ozzy doesn't really sound like Ozzy yet to my ears, he actually sounds older on this album than he does now, like some sort of vocal Dorian Grey. I get why this gets the ground zero tag.

The Wizard - I actually don't disagree that they sound like a lot of heavy blues being played at the time. While not necessarily by-the-numbers, it's reminiscent and slightly more interesting. Good stuff.

Wasp/Behind The Wall Of Sleep/Bassically/N.I.B. - Fucking loved all of this.

Wicked World - Also dig this as well. Kind of hard not too, at least for me. It was the second time I was reminded of The Doors during this album ('Black Sabbath' - 'Riders on the Storm'; Of course, I realize that this album predates the LA Woman album by several years, but it still sprung to mind) and Wicked World and The Soft Parade's Wild Child. Freakily similar to these ears, with the former obviously much heavier though. Both were composed in 1969 so I assume that sound was in the ether somewhere and Robbie and Tony both clutched it.

A Bit of Finger/Sleeping Village/Warning - This was pretty impressive as well.

Evil Woman - The vaguely funkiness of this track is kind of surprising. It's not 'The Crunge' but it works.

Played it 3x today and enjoyed it more with each listen, you catch a few more qualities that you missed the last time. I guess I'm still a little puzzled why Black Sabbath, outside of the title track and cover, is supposed to be so evil. Lyrically it doesn't feel all that evil. Even 'Evil Woman' is really evil, she's just loose, possibly with Satan or an African slave (the whips and the 'blackness'). What stands out is the incredibly slow & heavy groove. Pleasantly surprised indeed, although perhaps I shouldn't be. This isn't exactly a hundred miles from the blooze of Zep which I love. Only a whole lot heavier and I don't think they stole anything from Willie Dixon.


great review DJ, and stoked that you actually enjoyed it. :cheers:

got busy last night, but will be doing a track by track soon. i plan on doing one for every album.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:28 pm 
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frostingspoon

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Quite enjoyed most of this. It gets a little sludgy at times without knowing the songs, but I suspect on more repeat listenings it would sounds less sludgy. It's hard to picture a world without Ozzy, and I tried to remind myself that this was the first taste anyone ever got.

i was kind of surprised by the harmonica, happily so.

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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Drinky Wrote:
contradiction Wrote:
YES YES YES


what happened to your "you should hear this" threads


HEY I'M TALKING TO YOU


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Go Platinum

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oh i got bored of em like everything else

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:24 pm 
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Death

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I did a search for those the other day and was surprised by how few years were actually done. I found a lot of good stuff from those threads.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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contradiction Wrote:
oh i got bored of em like everything else


OK then I'm going to take it over.

It looks like these were all of the years that were done:
1955-1959
1964
1968
1969
1971
1973
1974
1978
1982
1986
1988
1991
1993
1995
1998
2001
2003
2005

If that's right, I'll pick one we haven't covered and start a thread on Monday. Anyway, sorry to hijack the Black Sabbath thread. I don't think any more needs to be said about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:00 am 
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Dj, are we doing 'Paranoid' this week?


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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:46 pm 
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TEH MACHINE
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Dalen Wrote:
Dj, are we doing 'Paranoid' this week?


We are indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Just now getting around to this album (downloaded it last week.) The Wizard is kinda fucking awesome, and not what I expected.

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:32 pm 
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Evil Woman is really odd here, very poppy.

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:25 am 
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TEH MACHINE
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Image
Quote:
What people forget about Black Sabbath—and it's understandable given their demonic imagery and All Hallow's Eve vibe—was that it was one of the most God-driven, puritanical, wet-blanket rock bands in history. Its "mankind is evil and must repent for its wicked ways" thesis would influence almost all the future bards of the metallic arts. On their second and supremely heavy album Paranoid, there are laments on the destruction of war and the hypocrisy of politicians ("Electric Funeral" and "War Pigs"), the perils of technology ("Iron Man"), the perils of drug abuse ("Hand of Doom"), and the perils of mythical creatures and their choice of footwear ("Fairies Wear Boots"). On "Hand of Doom," Geezer Butler's subatomic bass, Ozzy Osbourne's tortured bullfrog yelp, Bill Ward's smack-you-in-the-face drums, and Tony Iommi's fuzz guitar lead mesh seamlessly into something so unholy and beautiful that it would take lesser bands years of back-to-the-drawing-board grunt work to achieve such badassed symmetry.

Quote:
Paranoid was not only Black Sabbath's most popular record (it was a number one smash in the U.K., and "Paranoid" and "Iron Man" both scraped the U.S. charts despite virtually nonexistent radio play), it also stands as one of the greatest and most influential heavy metal albums of all time. Paranoid refined Black Sabbath's signature sound -- crushingly loud, minor-key dirges loosely based on heavy blues-rock -- and applied it to a newly consistent set of songs with utterly memorable riffs, most of which now rank as all-time metal classics. Where the extended, multi-sectioned songs on the debut sometimes felt like aimless jams, their counterparts on Paranoid have been given focus and direction, lending an epic drama to now-standards like "War Pigs" and "Iron Man" (which sports one of the most immediately identifiable riffs in metal history). The subject matter is unrelentingly, obsessively dark, covering both supernatural/sci-fi horrors and the real-life traumas of death, war, nuclear annihilation, mental illness, drug hallucinations, and narcotic abuse. Yet Sabbath makes it totally convincing, thanks to the crawling, muddled bleakness and bad-trip depression evoked so frighteningly well by their music. Even the qualities that made critics deplore the album (and the group) for years increase the overall effect -- the technical simplicity of Ozzy Osbourne's vocals and Tony Iommi's lead guitar vocabulary; the spots when the lyrics sink into melodrama or awkwardness; the lack of subtlety and the infrequent dynamic contrast. Everything adds up to more than the sum of its parts, as though the anxieties behind the music simply demanded that the band achieve catharsis by steamrolling everything in its path, including its own limitations. Monolithic and primally powerful, Paranoid defined the sound and style of heavy metal more than any other record in rock history.

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http://tinyurl.com/3u3uwed

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 Post subject: Re: Just like Cream! but worse: DumpJack Meets Black Sabbath
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Yeeeah! Playing this baby this afternoon and will post comments!


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