ACA lives!

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:55 am

I have yet to see anything resembling a coherant argument against the ACA. Just "freedom" and "big brother" and arm-crossing "it's not gonna help enough" harumphing. What the fuck is wrong with people.

Rick Derris · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:59 am

It's days like that that make me glad I'm not on Facebook.

pinehurst · **Joined:** Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:45 am **Posts:** 1526

And his name ain't got no Hussein.

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:36 am

pinehurst Wrote:

And his name ain't got no Hussein.

Though, Dominic Cooper's turn in The Devil's Double prolly would serve as a decent lead into playing Switzer.

But, first, he has to shoot Dwight Eisenhower, Vampire Hunter.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:27 pm

I will say that if you're thinking of selling a house you should do it before the year's out. That 3.8% tax is gonna take a bite outta yo ass.

Dick Meatwood · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:31 pm

Senator LooGAR Wrote:

I will say that if you're thinking of selling a house you should do it before the year's out. That 3.8% tax is gonna take a bite outta yo ass.

Will it?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

harry · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:33 pm

seafoam Wrote:

toots Wrote:

well this saves me from having to marry a danish chick

yeah, sheeesh, where they kill you at a certain age . . . Logan your number's up

Health Care Expenditures (percent of GDP) (1)

United States 13.4%
Canada 10.0
Finland 9.1
Sweden 8.6
Germany 8.4
Netherlands 8.4
Norway 7.6
Japan 6.8
United Kingdom 6.6
Denmark 6.5

Doctors' incomes: (2)

United States $132,300
Germany 91,244
Denmark 50,585
Finland 42,943
Norway 35,356
Sweden 25,768

Life Expectancy (years):

Men Women
Japan 76.2 82.5
France 72.9 81.3
Switzerland 74.1 81.3
Netherlands 73.7 80.5
Sweden 74.2 80.4
Canada 73.4 80.3
Norway 73.1 79.7
Germany 72.6 79.2
Finland 70.7 78.8
United States 71.6 78.6
United Kingdom 72.7 78.2
Denmark 72.2 77.9

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:35 pm

Drinky Wrote:

Senator LooGAR Wrote:

I will say that if you're thinking of selling a house you should do it before the year's out. That 3.8% tax is gonna take a bite outta yo ass.

Will it?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

Damn. That shit was complicated - but thanks for the clarification. I only knew about that after a conversation with a lawyer this morning.

That's actually really good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

Dick Meatwood · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:55 pm

I didn't know anything about it until you mentioned it. That snopes thing was of the first things that came up in a search, along with a pdf doc aimed at realtors to help them understand the implications of the law. I won't claim to have any real understanding of this stuff, but it does seem like that tax won't effect most of us directly, and it certainly won't mean having to pay the government 3.8% of the sale price of your home.

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:01 pm

100% chance my tinfoil hat relatives will get that hoax email and eat. it. up.

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:03 pm

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

100% chance my tinfoil hat relatives will get that hoax email and eat. it. up.

They stand with (a) walker?

Stop Breathin' · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:04 pm

I don't fish.

discostu · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:39 pm

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

100% chance my tinfoil hat relatives will get that hoax email and eat. it. up.

mine already did.

and seriously, because AMERIKAG is so fucking stupid, the White House should just release a flyer with bullet points of the advantages of the ACA.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

Elvis Fu Wrote:

Stop Breathin' Wrote:

rogneeb Wrote:

our daughter had a 15 minute procedure to put in ear tubes and remove her adenoids. cost: 23k. ACA, good luck fixing this bull shit.

so now you see?

I see that because of ACA (or Obamacare as you and your boys with fishhooks on their caps call it) it's more likely that a child who didn't have insurance two days ago will be more likely to be covered once all the provisions are in place. I also see that:

1. That $23,000 will not be counted against a lifetime cap on that insurance policy, because lifetime caps are eliminated by ACA.

2. Rogneeb Jr. is able to stay on her parents' health insurance until age 26 if she needs to.

3. Insurance companies are no longer permitted to drop Rogneeb Jr. just because she gets sick and needs coverage.

4. Insurance companies are no longer permitted to cover Rogneeb Jr. minus her pre-existing adenoid/adenoid-related conditions.

There's more there, and I don't think ACA goes far enough, including creating some semblance of pricing transparency in the medical field. But to throw the baby out with the bathwater is pretty lazy. Making it possible to unlink health insurance from an employer creates a lot of freedom, especially for people who have gotten sick through no fault of their own. People with pre-existing conditions (like fucking Cancer) can't work at small companies or start-ups and use their health benefits -- it will bankrupt the company. But if you know you can get insurance through another means like the exchanges, then you can work whereever you please. That's a big bonus for the individual, for the economy and society.

i agree with all of this. i was just pointing out that ACA doesnt go far enough in actually getting at the root problem - driving down cost of health services and therefore health insurance. there are a lot of "pilot programs" in the bill that may help around the edges, but we need some of the larger changes you mention above- de-coupling health insurance from employment, price transparency key among them. i didnt know and honestly didnt really care too much to shop around for the best price because it cost me the same amount - 10 dollars.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

I have yet to see anything resembling a coherant argument against the ACA. Just "freedom" and "big brother" and arm-crossing "it's not gonna help enough" harumphing. What the fuck is wrong with people.

well i could see problems when people that aren't poor enough to get any government assistance are now forced to go purchase insurance...they go out to the state exchange website and find out the prices are fucking insane for really awful coverage.

Flying Rabbit · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:39 pm

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare.../c530lfx

An incredible summary of what it is and what changes. Great read, and a great point-by-point synopsis.

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:18 pm

rogneeb Wrote:

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

I have yet to see anything resembling a coherant argument against the ACA. Just "freedom" and "big brother" and arm-crossing "it's not gonna help enough" harumphing. What the fuck is wrong with people.

well i could see problems when people that aren't poor enough to get any government assistance are now forced to go purchase insurance...they go out to the state exchange website and find out the prices are fucking insane for really awful coverage.

Recall the alternative.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

the alternative for them is just to show up at the ER and get the hospital to take care of them for free. costs them nothing but the gas to get over there.

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:29 pm

...

and then who pays for it again?

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

we all pay. im just saying there will be some free loaders howling about not being able to free load anymore.

Stop Breathin' · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:47 pm

Flying Rabbit Wrote:

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare.../c530lfx

An incredible summary of what it is and what changes. Great read, and a great point-by-point synopsis.

Great read there, FR. I urge all of you to not only read the synopsis, but also read the comments. It seems that this is bringing onto medical providers the same thing that our great governor is trying to bring onto teachers. Basing your job performance and, inevitably, pay, on factors that are completely out of their own control.

In our case, our individual school districts are suing to overturn this legislation.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:09 pm

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

I have yet to see anything resembling a coherant argument against the ACA. Just "freedom" and "big brother" and arm-crossing "it's not gonna help enough" harumphing. What the fuck is wrong with people.

The best argument against it is that it is a piece of shit law (legislatively); The underlying issues that it is trying to fix are real and do need fixing and, well, you gotta start somewhere, but the Act is both too long and too open to interpretation. Which would be fine if we had a working legislative branch--you go in, you fix stuff, you find out what works and what doesn't, etc. But, well, we don't. And now you are going to get situations like (just examples) Maryland, which has been working for months already to get its Exchange just right for the people and market that is Maryland, and Georgia, who's Governor I heard on NPR yesterday saying they are going to "wait and see what happens with the November elections" until they start setting up their exchange. Mind you, the exchanges have to be in place by November 18 of this year and if they aren't, the state has to use whatever Exchange the federal government mandates.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

yeah its really up to the states. i happen to live in a state with a doctor for a governor who already pushed for health care reform at the state level..insurance exchanges are going to go live very soon. most other states have probably been sitting around waiting they wouldnt have to deal with it.

as far as the complexity, hopefully some bureaucrats in the agencies can sit down and write some reasonable regs to implement the statute. then we'll get a couple decades of case law to interpret everything. haha.

discostu · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:20 pm

Stop Breathin' Wrote:

Flying Rabbit Wrote:

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare.../c530lfx

An incredible summary of what it is and what changes. Great read, and a great point-by-point synopsis.

Great read there, FR. I urge all of you to not only read the synopsis, but also read the comments. It seems that this is bringing onto medical providers the same thing that our great governor is trying to bring onto teachers. Basing your job performance and, inevitably, pay, on factors that are completely out of their own control.

In our case, our individual school districts are suing to overturn this legislation.

This post covers the Drs. being paid on quality of care vs. how much care the provide:
http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfi ... it/c537rqi

Won't the physicians claim that to provide quality, they must charge more? Similar to the argument that to get the best talent, companies have to pay executives bonuses, et al? If I read properly, it makes it more difficult for insurance companies to jack prices? So where is the hypothetical extra cost of physician care passed on?

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

Rick Derris Wrote:

It's days like that that make me glad I'm not on Facebook.

Either I've gotten really good at ignoring political posts or there were at most 3 of my friends who posted anything about the ACA.

ACA lives!

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