And how much out of it was Ali when he fought Holmes and Burbick? I don't get why you brought those up? Holmes and Burbick would've never stood a chance against the Ali in his prime and it's generally acknowledged that those fights are pretty laughable. And I don't think anyone would label any of Lewis' fights as classic fights ala Ali-Frazier or Ali-Foreman.

And say what you will about Tyson, but during his years under D'Amato there wasn't a more exciting fighter.

Shiv I say that about Ali because he actually fought those fights. I'm sorry to burst the mythological bubble about Cassius but lets not forget that he also got his head knocked in by uber-sorry-nigga Leon Spinks.

Ali was a great fighter. But his deification is just that. He is not the greatest heavyweight ever by a damn stretch. And Tyson isnt even in the Top 10.

Geez, go suck Lewis' nutsack some more...

Hey Newman, how's about going lowblow because you have no fucking argument in what was a completely polite and rational boxing discussion.

I'm not sucking Lewis' nutsack, I'm trying to teach you something, bitch.

Get your head out of your ass and pay attention. Boxing isnt about staring at the bulge in the fighter's trunks, ok?

Stick around and I'll teach you something about middleweights next.

This is why IMHO Lennox Lewis is one of the great heavyweights of all time. He had a couple of embarrasing moments but he came back and beat everyone that beat him.

You are more than right man. Ali should not have been in the ring in those fights. But the bottom line is that he was. It is a goddamn shame that Mohammad Ali missed what may have been the peak years of his career protesting a war that he didnt believe in------I support that he did that, but I can't judge someone's career on potential. I mean, Ted Williams spent some of his peak years in a bomber in WWII; and then some more in Korea----factor that in and he has more Homeruns than Henry Aaron; Mike Tyson spent some of his peak years in prison; actually I think that his time in prison was part of the three headed monster that destroyed Tyson (as you mentioned earlier, the death of Cuss, prison, and #3-Don King)

All that being said, Lennox Lewis never had those distractions so I guess he was lucky in that respect. But not unlike Larry Holmes, all Lennox did was beat everybody that they put in front of him; And unlike guys like Ali and Holyfield, Lewis (wisely) didnt stick around lon enough to become a tomato can. (and yeah, he was behind on points in the Klitscho fight but also consider that Lewis had dude's eye hanging out of his head; Lewis won that fight,,,,,


There isnt an old timers day for boxers Steve; and fighters imho have to be judged on the totality of their careers.

But I gotta say, with boxing I think the popular assumption that Ali was the best is right on. He just fought and beat soooo many fighters of varying styles. His speed was unmatched. He could take a punch. As he got older he adapted and showed how smart a fighter he was. He just had it all including, yeah, too big an ego and too much pride to know when to pack it in.

What can I say? I think in the heavyweights you gotta start with Ali and then argue about # 2-10.

Steve

You know, Chris, I've never bought (and I don't think you do either) the arguments that the old time "legends" in any sport would wipe the floor with more contemporary athletes.
Steve

And I guess that the pithy little argument that "that dude who's name I ain't acknowleding anymore" were having reflects that: Do you judge a fighter by his peak (the coveted title the "World's Baddest Man" that traditionally comes with being the Heavyweight Champeen of the Wuhl) or do you judge his whole career.

Honestly, and with apoligies, I'll sleep on it and give a definitive opinion in the AM.

[grumbling]Jou Louis[/grumbling]