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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:34 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:26 am 
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What a way to start the week.

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If Saved did anything, it proved that the born-again Christianity of Slow Train Coming wasn't merely a passing fad, and that it did, in fact, mean something significant to Dylan. Whether it meant something significant to his audience was another matter entirely, since this is where his religion overshadows his music, turning the album into a sermon to an audience that is nearly certainly unconverted — and never will be, either. Dylan himself may be part of that audience, since he did back away from such a staunchly dogged viewpoint not long afterward, but that doesn't change Saved's status as being a fairly flat — and, for Dylan, fairly pedestrian — testament to his faith. And, if Slow Train Coming found him at a fairly creative peak of songwriting and supported by a supple backing band, he's turning out routine songs here, and the backing follows suit, resulting in his flattest record yet.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:28 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:40 am 
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The best thing to ever come out of this album...



Great song BTW, I don't give a fuck if it's about pledging your allegiance to the Moonies.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:15 am 
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I'm morbidly curious about Saved. Never heard it in it's entirety.

Still playing catch up, but I can say that when you look at the "highlights" from an album like Slow Train Coming and you come up with the atrocious live version of the title track from Dylan and The Dead, you're indeed in uncharted waters.

How they even let him keep recording after Saved is beyond me, and a testament to the powers of cocaine -- it's a helluva drug.

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I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:36 am 
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I need to back up a little and and briefly talk about Slow Train Coming...

Excepting dubbed cassette copies of GH 1&2, it was the first proper Dylan album I owned (a vinyl copy pilfered from one of those storage repo auctions I grew up hanging around). I think I liked "Slow Train" and "Gotta Serve Somebody" at one point but I can honestly say I despise them both now, moreso for the sound than the sentiment. I do like "Precious Angel" though and can occasionally handle "I Believe in You" maybe out of nostalgia. The rest is just dull.

Three songs into Saved, and the title cut is far better than anything on Slow Train. Far better.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:32 pm 
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I'm prepared to declare Saved roughly 10,000x better than Slow Train Coming. Like, it's not even close--gospel underpinnings and more concise arrangements beat boring songs, lousy sound and production and terrible lyrics every day of the week.

Would love to hear from tentoze on this but apparently he thinks that you are allowed to leave these exercises mid stream.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
I'm prepared to declare Saved roughly 10,000x better than Slow Train Coming. Like, it's not even close--gospel underpinnings and more concise arrangements beat boring songs, lousy sound and production and terrible lyrics every day of the week.

Would love to hear from tentoze on this but apparently he thinks that you are allowed to leave these exercises mid stream.



Yeah, kind of like in the Stones thread, or hell even Dick's Picks, often the maligned albums reveal something, and the great albums can be overrated, or their place in the canon can be moved depending on when you listen to them, etc.

e.g. earlier in this thread, my memory told me that I did not think nearly as much of Blonde on Blonde as I actually do, based on listening to the album :)

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
I'm prepared to declare Saved roughly 10,000x better than Slow Train Coming. Like, it's not even close--gospel underpinnings and more concise arrangements beat boring songs, lousy sound and production and terrible lyrics every day of the week.

Would love to hear from tentoze on this but apparently he thinks that you are allowed to leave these exercises mid stream.


I haven't listened to these yet for this exercise and they are generally albums of Dylan's I ignore but I remember thinking Saved is better than Slow Train Coming, too. I Believe in You has always been a favorite from this era but song-by-song Saved is definitely the stronger of the two. That said, neither album is really worth owning.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:24 pm 
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TEH MACHINE
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I know we often say "I hate myself for listening to this..." but I say I really want to emphasize how much I truly hate myself for listening to this right now. Like I wish my life was over in a James Vance kind of way.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:28 pm 
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TEH MACHINE
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Bloor, how can you listen to 'In the Garden' and not want to fucking kill yourself? I didn't feel this level of animosity towards myself during Slow Train. This is just ghastly fucking garbage.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:46 pm 
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DumpJack Wrote:
Bloor, how can you listen to 'In the Garden' and not want to fucking kill yourself? I didn't feel this level of animosity towards myself during Slow Train. This is just ghastly fucking garbage.


What can I say, it's groovy. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:38 pm 
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TEH MACHINE
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
DumpJack Wrote:
Bloor, how can you listen to 'In the Garden' and not want to fucking kill yourself? I didn't feel this level of animosity towards myself during Slow Train. This is just ghastly fucking garbage.


What can I say, it's groovy. :lol:


There is a certain comfort, however, in knowing that I'll never hear this album again. You don't get many absolutes in life.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Oh man, wait until you have to endure "Property of Jesus" tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
I'm prepared to declare Saved roughly 10,000x better than Slow Train Coming. Like, it's not even close--gospel underpinnings and more concise arrangements beat boring songs, lousy sound and production and terrible lyrics every day of the week.

Would love to hear from tentoze on this but apparently he thinks that you are allowed to leave these exercises mid stream.


OK, OK, I have this on vinyl (I'm ashamed to admit it), but didn't really think I'd play it. I'll try to get to it a little later, but unless my memory from the time around its original release has totally failed, this thing sent me running for Aleister Crowley's grave.


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:42 am 
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Radcliffe Wrote:
I'm out.


Sweetie, you were never in.

Saved > Slow Train.... but slain in the Holy Spirit pretty much destroyed the poet's ear:

Saved
By the blood of the lamb
Saved
Saved
And I’m so glad
Yes, I’m so glad
I’m so glad
So glad


Nicely put, you putz.

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Worse is coming, but Infidels and Empire Bur are worth hearing.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:24 am 
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TEH MACHINE
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Shot of Love finds Dylan still in born-again mode, but he's starting to come alive again — which isn't as much a value judgment as it is an observation that he no longer seems beholden to repeating dogma, loosening up and crafting songs again. And it's not just that his writing is looser, the music is, too, as he lets himself — and his backing band — rock a little harder, a little more convincingly. Shot of Love still isn't a great album, but it once again has flashes of brilliance, such as "Every Grain of Sand," which point the way to the rebirth of Infidels.

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http://tinyurl.com/32xrtzb

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:57 pm 
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TEH MACHINE
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Oh man, wait until you have to endure "Property of Jesus" tomorrow.


If this was murder we're talking about, "Property of Jesus' and most of Shot of Love is like smothering the elderly, I'm not even excited as I do it and just feel pity. Anything off of Saved is Hillside Stranglers with a bottle of Drano. I want to fucking destroy you as painfully as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:48 pm 
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I still say there is untapped value on Saved that you are discounting, Dump.

As for Shot of Love, he obviously saves the best for last with "Every Grain of Sand" though even it treads dangerously close to the sort of overwrought production that ruined people like Willie Nelson's work in this era--the backing tracks all sound like they were charted out by a fresh faced music major and fed into something plastic and shiny.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:54 pm 
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I'll amend because I listened to it yesterday and forgot a couple of my ruminations..."Groom's Still Waiting At The Altar" kicks a whole lot of ass and makes me wonder how old the tape they dug it up off was.

Also, "Heart of Mine" is a pretty good song judging by the version on Biograph but sucks it here.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:39 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
I still say there is untapped value on Saved that you are discounting, Dump.

As for Shot of Love, he obviously saves the best for last with "Every Grain of Sand" though even it treads dangerously close to the sort of overwrought production that ruined people like Willie Nelson's work in this era--the backing tracks all sound like they were charted out by a fresh faced music major and fed into something plastic and shiny.


I listened to Saved while doing a tedious email comb through this afternoon. It is so bad I no longer have an faith in a higher power.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:24 am 
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Infidels was the first secular record Bob Dylan recorded since Street Legal, and it's far more like a classicist Dylan album than that one, filled with songs that are evocative in their imagery and direct in their approach. This is lean, much like Slow Train Coming, but its writing is closer to Dylan's peak of the mid-'70s, and some of the songs here — particularly on the first side — are minor classics, capturing him reviving his sense of social consciousness and his gift for poetic, elegant love songs. For a while, Infidels seems like a latter-day masterpiece, but toward the end of the record it runs out of steam, preventing itself from being a triumph. Still, in comparison to everything that arrived in the near-decade before it, Infidels is a triumph, finding Dylan coming tantalizingly close to regaining all his powers.

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http://tinyurl.com/2uyb6au

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:25 am 
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I had a professor in college who was a huge Dylan fan and considered Infidels his absolute favorite. I'm looking forward to hearing this one more than probably any other on this little quest since I've never listened to it before.

I finally got through Saved this morning and have to agree with Bloor somewhat. While 6-7 of the 9 songs are totally unlistenable, Pressing On and a couple of others aren't completely awful. Maybe it's because I'm religious but I find a tiny bit of value in Saved.

Also, and I realize I'm way behind here, Desire isn't as good as I remember. I like a few of the songs ok but Joey and Isis aren't the epic classics I remember and I think the heavy use of violin kills a lot of songs for me.

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 Post subject: Re: The DJ and Gar Saga Continues-The Bob Dylan listening thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:04 am 
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Again, it's hard to communicate the impact of Infidels at the time of its release. How was it possible that the writer of Desire and Saved actually could still write songs with the power of Jokerman, Prince of Peace, Sweetheart Like You etc. Was he joking before? (Although Jesus is still in every song).

The review DJ posted seems pretty good. This is a solid Dylan work, complex and political, prophetic and yearning. The vocals are some his best. There's something about the arrangements and the production that don't hold up. Still, by any measure this would be in the "top ten" of Dylan releases.

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