Joakim Noah and 'the gay slur'

Radcliffe · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:17 pm

This board would really benefit if Haq posted more.

HaqDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:28 pm

Thanks, Rads. Although it's possible that if I hang around too much, I'll have a serious relapse of self-righteous dickweedism. Or, you know, moreso.

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:34 pm

Radcliffe Wrote:

This board would really benefit if Haq posted more.

It definitely benefits when you post less.

Haq, I know exactly what you mean (in your earlier post), so there's no need for you to work yourself into a canned ham face lather repeating it.

HaqDiesel · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:35 pm

MontyTheMongoose · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:36 pm

Twilightkid Wrote:

Evil Dr. K Wrote:

harry Wrote:

Black Magic Putin Wrote:

Noah should have gotten a game suspension just for being a moron. Stern was JUST in this position a month ago with Kobe and now he's getting praise for running a league where a team exec can come out of the closet, just to find a star player hasn't been listening to a fucking word anyone said. If someone on my team at work pulled this days after we went through some kind of seminar about avoiding this very thing, I'd send him home.

this is the most clear-thinking in the thread (with the Cap'n close second). Y'all should be 'shamed of yourselves. And Dr. Evil K... hooligan hogwash.

It's not hooligan hogwash Harry, it's quite the opposite. It's a sign of civilization. Do you honestly believe that violence isn't part of the human condition? Do you honestly believe that if violence is part of the human condition that cannot be altered (which it can't) it should not then be funneled off into something that is relatively harmless? Sports is primal scream for the masses.

All the great civilizations had violent sports because they understood the requirement for them in building and maintain those societies. The ancient Greeks had sphairomachia, or ball battles, which was a combination of soccer and boxing. Romans hurled abuse at each other and often clashed at performances of ballet.

Of course the first stadiums were built to hold gladiatorial contests, which incidentally, became most popular during the Pax Romana when most of the Roman empire was peaceful and law abiding. Medieval society had 'mob football' when two neighboring towns essentially had a riot with a pigs bladder tossed into the middle of it.

If you can't understand that sports stems for a human predilection for violence, and is in fact the product of a civilizing influence to stem that violence by containing it within a limiting and ritualized context, then you really don't understand human beings.

& this, from today's Peter King mailbag at SI.com:

Quote:

Wrote Michael Hardin of Lancaster, Pa.: "Lewis' remarks on football and crime actually echo the thesis of anthropologist Rene Girard that surrogate mechanisms or outlets for violence help to contain violence. Loss of these mechanisms ensures that mimetic (imitated) rivalry will find its outlet in social anarchy. Girard has been hailed as the Einstein of the human sciences and is a member of L'academie Francaise. As an academic (and NY Giants fan), I find Lewis' remarks spot on.''

I suppose we know whom Darrin has been reading (Girard, not PK).

Hegel · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:45 pm

This is why Noah should have just told the fan to suck a dick.

EDIT: Also, to reduce sports to an outlet for humanity's predilection for violence is remedial and reeks of spending a little too much time in the philosophy textbook. While there are certainly tertiary levels of sports and sports fandom, the enjoyment of sports is far deeper than tribalism and violence. There is a certain level of strategy, respect of skill and talent, and human connection (shared between fans of the same sport--maybe a more civilized tribalism, I concede) that draws us in to sports moreso than my desire to watch some dudes beat each other up.

I admit it. I love fights in ice hockey. I love the dynamic it brings. But, anyone who says that that is WHY they like hockey is wholeheartedly missing the point of the sport and deserves to have a beer dumped on them (Hoo-Ah!).

robotboy · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:47 pm

man all this because someone said something about his mama

seafoam · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 4:49 pm

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

The point is (or is supposed to be) that wrong shit is wrong, and that bigotry isn't ok here.

Here is where we mainly disagree. While it's true that bigotry is not ok, there is no bigotry here. none.

You either don't know this offends gay people, or don't care. I don't think either is really a great place to be.

seriously
I am curious , where/when does "faggot" not connote/refer/imply gay bashing ever, ok besides a pile of sticks or a cig

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 5:06 pm

seafoam Wrote:

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

The point is (or is supposed to be) that wrong shit is wrong, and that bigotry isn't ok here.

Here is where we mainly disagree. While it's true that bigotry is not ok, there is no bigotry here. none.

You either don't know this offends gay people, or don't care. I don't think either is really a great place to be.

seriously
I am curious , where/when does "faggot" not connote/refer/imply gay bashing ever, ok besides a pile of sticks or a cig

Exhibit A: The F Word

nobody · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 5:11 pm

As much as it pains me to say this...there are actually times where South Park episodes are not the ultimate guideline to right and wrong in this world.

nobody · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 5:14 pm

I do agree that as a society we are most at fault for giving these words their power in the first place. But, it gets a little fuzzier as to what to do about it once we're past that point...and this is an instance where we've already reached that critical mass.

Twilightkid · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 5:15 pm

nobody Wrote:

As much as it pains me to say this...there are actually times where South Park episodes are not the ultimate guideline to right and wrong in this world.

OH REALLLY?!?!

seafoam · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 5:23 pm

Yail Bloor Wrote:

seafoam Wrote:

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

Yail Bloor Wrote:

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

The point is (or is supposed to be) that wrong shit is wrong, and that bigotry isn't ok here.

Here is where we mainly disagree. While it's true that bigotry is not ok, there is no bigotry here. none.

You either don't know this offends gay people, or don't care. I don't think either is really a great place to be.

seriously
I am curious , where/when does "faggot" not connote/refer/imply gay bashing ever, ok besides a pile of sticks or a cig

Exhibit A: The F Word

I'll admit I did not read that link thoroughly [working now] but I gather its an attempt to take the sting out of a word that connotes/refers/implies gay bashing. Is that really a viable Exhibit A or being funny?

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 5:41 pm

seafoam Wrote:

I'll admit I did not read that link thoroughly [working now] but I gather its an attempt to take the sting out of a word that connotes/refers/implies gay bashin. Is that really a viable Exhibit A or being funny?

-and it ignores the more fundamental question: Who gets to decide what offends gay people... you, or gay people? It doesn't really seem very grey to me. I would never walk up to a gay man I didn't know and call him a faggot. I wouldn't do that primarily because I have a very realistic expectation that he would be incredibly offended by it, and I'm not a fan of offending people.

And that's really the whole thing, right there.

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

A couple years ago I saw a hippie looking guy wearing a swastika tshirt at a bar and I asked what the fuck was going on. Guy said he was tying to take back the swastika. I wished him luck. Wonder if he's still alive.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 5:55 pm

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

seafoam Wrote:

I'll admit I did not read that link thoroughly [working now] but I gather its an attempt to take the sting out of a word that connotes/refers/implies gay bashin. Is that really a viable Exhibit A or being funny?

-and it ignores the more fundamental question: Who gets to decide what offends gay people... you, or gay people? It doesn't really seem very grey to me. I would never walk up to a gay man I didn't know and call him a faggot. I wouldn't do that primarily because I have a very realistic expectation that he would be incredibly offended by it, and I'm not a fan of offending people.

And that's really the whole thing, right there.

This is true. I'm guilty of using the word. I'm guilty of dropping "that dude looks like he's up here lobbying for The Kansas City Association of ________" to connote that I do not like or respect that person. Do I really feel he enjoy sexual congress with other male human beings? No. If an actual homosexual heard me say this (and understood the reference) would he be offended by this> Probably/Yes.

So, even though I might not "mean anything by it" it probably has a bigger real world footprint than I'd like to admit.

But man, it just rolls off the tongue!

discostu · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 6:11 pm

Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:

This is true. I'm guilty of using the word. I'm guilty of dropping "that dude looks like he's up here lobbying for The Kansas City Association of ________" to connote that I do not like or respect that person. Do I really feel he enjoy sexual congress with other male human beings? No. If an actual homosexual heard me say this (and understood the reference) would he be offended by this> Probably/Yes.

So, even though I might not "mean anything by it" it probably has a bigger real world footprint than I'd like to admit.

But man, it just rolls off the tongue!

The Kansas City Association of Cumdumpsters
The Kansas City Association of Fails

both work better than

The Kansas City Association of Fags

rogneeb · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:07 pm **Posts:** 12618

The KCAF has a really great summer gala

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 6:22 pm

discostu Wrote:

Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:

This is true. I'm guilty of using the word. I'm guilty of dropping "that dude looks like he's up here lobbying for The Kansas City Association of ________" to connote that I do not like or respect that person. Do I really feel he enjoy sexual congress with other male human beings? No. If an actual homosexual heard me say this (and understood the reference) would he be offended by this> Probably/Yes.

So, even though I might not "mean anything by it" it probably has a bigger real world footprint than I'd like to admit.

But man, it just rolls off the tongue!

The Kansas City Association of Cumdumpsters
The Kansas City Association of Fails

both work better than

The Kansas City Association of Fags

You got me all wrong here - you obviously didn't get the reference.

It's more like Dipshit A works for the Bama Association of Gardners - and you say "Oh yeah, that dude? His main association is headquartered out of Kansas City" or "Yeah, that dude came down here after years of working for The KC Assn of Gardners."

Skip ahead to about 1:05

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 6:27 pm

rogneeb Wrote:

is there a difference between saying something insensitive or prejudiced and being a bigot? how often do i have to say faggot or nigger to cross the line? does when/where you say it matter? can we beat this into the ground?

Yeah, on a ton of levels.

FT · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 6:51 pm

intent is irrelevant

discostu · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 6:57 pm

Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:

discostu Wrote:

Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:

This is true. I'm guilty of using the word. I'm guilty of dropping "that dude looks like he's up here lobbying for The Kansas City Association of ________" to connote that I do not like or respect that person. Do I really feel he enjoy sexual congress with other male human beings? No. If an actual homosexual heard me say this (and understood the reference) would he be offended by this> Probably/Yes.

So, even though I might not "mean anything by it" it probably has a bigger real world footprint than I'd like to admit.

But man, it just rolls off the tongue!

The Kansas City Association of Cumdumpsters
The Kansas City Association of Fails

both work better than

The Kansas City Association of Fags

You got me all wrong here - you obviously didn't get the reference.

It's more like Dipshit A works for the Bama Association of Gardners - and you say "Oh yeah, that dude? His main association is headquartered out of Kansas City" or "Yeah, that dude came down here after years of working for The KC Assn of Gardners."

Skip ahead to about 1:05

FYI - you can grab YouTube link at a certain time stamp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTNJwRTj ... page#t=58s (not allowing embedding, but the URL pasted here has the above video starting at 58 seconds)

Yail Bloor · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 7:00 pm

Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:

seafoam Wrote:

I'll admit I did not read that link thoroughly [working now] but I gather its an attempt to take the sting out of a word that connotes/refers/implies gay bashin. Is that really a viable Exhibit A or being funny?

-and it ignores the more fundamental question: Who gets to decide what offends gay people... you, or gay people? It doesn't really seem very grey to me. I would never walk up to a gay man I didn't know and call him a faggot. I wouldn't do that primarily because I have a very realistic expectation that he would be incredibly offended by it, and I'm not a fan of offending people.

And that's really the whole thing, right there.

You don't make this distinction when it involves Christians, Right wingers or homeless people though, amirite?

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 7:18 pm

FT Wrote:

intent is irrelevant

I totally disagree here.

Kingfish · **Posted:** Tue May 24, 2011 10:40 pm

Haq is totally right. I still maintain that we are quick to judge. And that's it's unfair to label Noah. But I know the board moralists would never lose their judgment in the heat of a moment.

And from the beginning I've also said the NBA has to fine him.

In my opinion cunt is the most offensive word in the English language.

Joakim Noah and 'the gay slur'

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