are you for real? been watching too much minority report? i didn't know walking near a guy in a brawl automatically meant you planned to deck a guy easily a foot and a half taller.

KPH

I still think the fan and his buddy were coming at Artest and the guy who got clocked was posturing right before Artest hit him.

First off, the fan or ballboy or whatever was on the floor walking towards Artest. What business did he have on the floor during a brawl? And walking at the guy at the center of the fights?

Take a look at that one video link, at around the 7:00 mark.

Assuming he is a fan, not a ballboy, and he is on the court walking towards the brawl? Why is Artest still on the floor and not in the locker room? I think he should be toast, along with O'Neal and Jackson. This was ridiculous.

It's a good thing no kids were hurt. Or old ladies or something. That would have been very, very bad for the sport. Not that this is good. My grandmother would have busted Artest across the side of the head with her cane, though.

It's a lot harder to remove a larger man from the incident after he has just been in a fight than you might think. You can't just will them off the floor.

And what was Artest supposed to think anyways? Two guns run up to him, ballboys or not, after he had just been in a scuffle with other fans. Of course he is going to defend himself. I just happen to think that they were going to jump him, whoever they were. Just because you are a ballboy and allowed on the court doesn't mean you walk up to a guy involved in a fight. You steer clear and get the hell out of the way.

Did a short stint in a bar, so I know that, BUT I find fault with Artest. He was looking for someone to hit. He made zero attempt to remove himself from the situation. Even in the tunnel to the locker rooms he was being restrained. That's my problem. He initiated the violence and did nothing to avoid any further confrontations.

Wallace initiated the first contact by shoving Artest in the throat after a moderately hard foul.

Then Artest was lying on the scorer's table when he was pelted by the drink the first time. He didn't initiate that violence.

Then after he comes back down to the court, a dude runs up to him. Instinct probably took over due to the adrenaline pumping, so he hit him. But he didn't appear to be looking to fight anyone (head was down and he was walking towards his bench).

I just don't buy it. Sure, Artest is probably nuts, but he didn't initiate the first two acts of violence and in the third, I can hardly blame him for protecting himself.

Where's Kermit Washington when you need him?

still, what the fuck are they doing stepping up to artest? niggaz is wildin.

When I say "thugish" I mean just that...THUG-LIKE. If you think I'm talking in racial terms, you're wrong. I was comparing the NBA to MLB.

Wallace vs. Artest is immaterial in this case. Wallace vs. Artest does not have anything to do with Artest vs. Any fan. I also think it's interesting that Artest made no effort whatsoever to trade shots with Ben Wallace, another pro athlete. He was quite quick to jump into the stands after a disadvantaged opponent however.

I understand that he didn't need to be pelted by the drink, but to go into the stands after anyone you damn well please is not an appropriate nor proportional response. If I am walking down the sidewalk and get pelted by a drink, it is inappropriate for me to go run and grab someone from the general vicinity and start pounding them.

The fan was coming in the direction of Artest, but he did stop. He didn't advance even after Artest squared up. Artest should have walked away. After all, if he hadn't gone in the stands in the first place it's doubtful any of this would have happened. Adrenaline isn't a good enough reason for me, especially considering Artest overreacted in the first place.

I really think that Artest, O'Neal and Jackson should have to sit out the year, plus financial penalties. Plus, everyone who came back out of the locker room to the floor, like Tinsley and his weapon of choice, should be harshly penalized.

I will give a thumbs up to Tayshaun Prince, however, for being the only player on either team that did not leave the bench.

cos he knows he'd get broken in half if he got in a fight.

see, that's the perspective i'm coming from. i bounced at a bar for a year, ran another bar for a year, and i play hockey. as such, i'm a pretty good judge of who's about to clock you and who's not, and i simply don't see any malice coming from those 2 goofballs, who - granted - should not have been any where near the court, which is yet another security fuck-up, but what? oh, i'm gonna fuckin pile-drive overweight-for-his-frame dude because why? how the fuck can you anyone side with jermaine in that*?

fucking unrestrained malice is most of what i saw from the Pacer players in question and little else. again, when you have fucking RASHEED trying to keep shit in check...come on.

KPH

* i totally wanted him on the Spurs and love his playing

I am a big fan of late-night drunk-n-cussing KPH.

A. Big. Fan.

Those were all fans, not ballboys. I think it was a towel give-away night because there were fans throwing towels all over the place.

There is never an excuse for a player to do what those Pacers did. They have too much to lose. Let security handle it and walk away, no matter how hard it is.

ha. last night was one of those "so drunk, i'm really not caring where i end up" sorts of nights. actually, the drunk part was merely an accessory. alas, my lame ass just ended up where it always does: on a webboard, at home, eating cold pizza, and drinking lots of water.

KPH

i don't recall anyone going on about how thugish hockey players are when that guy took out a hit on his agent earlier in the year. that behavior is at least 100% more thugish than anything that happened in detroit. does anyone think that people would be vocalizing these "the nba is all thugs" attitudes had it been scott pollard and austin croshere going into the stands to pummel someone?

They didn't call the NHL a consortium of thugs, but they did call the player who took out the hit, "fag".

the resolution? 30 games for artest, 20 each for jackson and oneal, but 5 for wallace? that doesn't seem right...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/b ... p/?cnn=yes

I certainly don't respect artest any more or less because of the fight. However, I do agree with those that say he is not the "one" to blame. He has to take responsibility for what he did, but he is not the only problem. I believe that the general conduct of the fans is more to blame than Artest and his cohort slapping grown men in the face and socking others in their jaws.

And, whoever, I think it was KPH, said that the initial push of the pacers player by the pistons player did not instigate anything I think is looking over the affect it had on the attitude of the fans. It seemed to give them an increased attitude of "fuck you". If I were already pissed off, calming myself down, laying on my back minding my own business trying not to get into something that would get me into trouble and some smart ass detroit fan throws his/her drink on me. You better believe at the very least I am going to say something, no matter what my physical dimensions are. If someone is going to throw something on you like that then they better be prepared for someone to come at them. If the person throwing a drink is a 5'4" 115lb male, that's not the fault of Artest. Like I said, I don't condone the actions. I don't think that it was right. However, claiming that Artest responded without provocation is simply denying the facts of the situation.

Besides, who doesn't want to see some fans get their asses kicked every now and again. Fans are like tourists. Everybody hates them, but that's how "we" stay afloat.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1928540

ESPN is saying Artest is gone for the season, Jackson for 30, O'Neal for 25 and Wallace for six and Anthony Johnson for five.

I can live with that. Not that I ever watch the NBA, though.

wow, looks like that detroit tv station was just making things up...

yeah those penalties look like what i wanted to see. i still don't get wallace for six but whatever.

yeah if you watch during one of those videos wallace keeps going on an on while artest is just lying on the table for about 2 minutes. artest starts to move towards wallace at one point by lies back down and then the drink lands on him. he probably deserves more than 6 games, maybe 10. i don't have a problem with any of the other suspensions though though i wonder why tinsley didn't get suspended for waving the dustpan around wildly.

Reporter: Was it a unanimous decision to suspend Artest for the rest of the season?

Stern: Yes. 1-0.

I LOVE IT!

Yeah those punishments seem excessive. I think Artest's (who I do think is a bit of a nutcase esp with regards to his request for "time off") reputation increased the severity of the punishment. Jackson wasn't even incited (outside of defending his teammate) to enter the stands and was on the offense and he got 30 games. Maxwell was verbally incited and got 10 games. He should have been suspended but not for the season.

As far as the two "ballboys"....if they were on the floor and said nothing to incite Artest, which I guess could've happened well then I agree with the full season suspension because they were separate incidents and differs from the Maxwell scenario. However, given what had occurred directly prior to the ballboys' arrival on the court...if they did verbally incite him..well what were they hoping to accomplish by getting on the floor, confronting a clearly pissed off player, and cursing him out (if that occurred of course)?

Like the MNF incident there appears to be more at work here than what appears on the surface.

The Dec. 25 game should be a good one although the stormtroopers will undoubtedly be out in full effect.