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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:50 pm 
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frostingspoon
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im not surprised

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Indie Debut
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me neither

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Indie Debut
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Kingfish Wrote:
In all honesty, I think there's a lot of misinformation out there about what this bill actually does (It's a very reasonable bill from what I understand of it). I think once people see what it does, a lot of this overreaction will subside and people will come to like it.


If you have read it, please summarize all of it. I'd really like to know because you're probably one of about 100 people who've read the whole thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:17 pm 
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Stone Wrote:
Kingfish Wrote:
In all honesty, I think there's a lot of misinformation out there about what this bill actually does (It's a very reasonable bill from what I understand of it). I think once people see what it does, a lot of this overreaction will subside and people will come to like it.


If you have read it, please summarize all of it. I'd really like to know because you're probably one of about 100 people who've read the whole thing.


I haven't. The best I have is what analysts at the CBO said it did during a conference call when I was clerking for a healthcare firm, and studying it in my health law survey course. I wasn't trying to portray that I read it. I probably should have said was, "it's a very reasonable bill from I've been told by semi-reliable sources." I don't have the time nor the inclination to read it.

But very few people have read the patriot act, bail-out legislation, etc. That's what news sources are for. There's some stuff I don't like, sure. For example, I don't like that employers will be required to provide health insurance. But a lot of it makes sense like raising the age to stay on parent's insurance from 24 to 26. 24 was an antiquated age, and college students make up a significant portion of the "uninsured gap."

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:19 pm 
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frostingspoon

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Dalen Wrote:
Image



looks like someone needs to watch a humbling episode of CBS's The CEO Learns that Shitty Jobs are Shitty and Low Paying.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:52 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Isn't she wearing a Nebraska jersey? Explains a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:05 pm 
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jewels santana Wrote:
Dalen Wrote:
Image



looks like someone needs to watch a humbling episode of CBS's The CEO Learns that Shitty Jobs are Shitty and Low Paying.


You know more and more I've been thinking about Obama's leitmotif of "defining moment", "this is our time...", and even the Alinskyesque "you are the one you've been waiting for"... coupled with his professed admiration for Reagan. Reagan who altered the direction of the country to define government as the problem. Obama not afraid to position himself as believing that government can solve problems. Maybe 2010 is like 1982.

Hmm. Maybe it is a defining moment. Maybe the definition is still in doubt. But maybe good things can happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:08 pm 
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frostingspoon
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More like 1984, harry, more like 1984.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:04 pm 
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discostu Wrote:
More like 1984, harry, more like 1984.


No dude, 1984 was the Patriot Act.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:24 pm 
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god the shit being posted on facebook is just too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:40 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.

2. Obama should have backed off of this because "the polls show that Americans don't want it". If the shoe were on the other foot and Obama was using polls to say, cut military spending, there would be an outcry of "He's just like Bill Clinton, only watches the polls. Now Reagan and W, they ignored the polls and went with their convictions."


= Summary of probably 15 emails back and forth on FB between me and one of our highschool friends.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:45 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.

2. Obama should have backed off of this because "the polls show that Americans don't want it". If the shoe were on the other foot and Obama was using polls to say, cut military spending, there would be an outcry of "He's just like Bill Clinton, only watches the polls. Now Reagan and W, they ignored the polls and went with their convictions."


= Summary of probably 15 emails back and forth on FB between me and one of our highschool friends.


Mark S?

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:57 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Mark doesn't put that much work into it (email, etc), just makes snide comments here and there about GOVGERNMENK BAG, BIZGNESS GOOG. It's Chris V that writes and writes and writes and writes and writes and is now mailing me a book about "fair taxes."

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Go Platinum
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.


There were a whole helluva lot of dummies who convinced themselves Obama would govern like a moderate and a centrist despite all the evidence to the contrary.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:59 pm 
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frostingspoon
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Some of the fun:

Quote:
Everyone in the US already has basic medical coverage. All they do is fill out the forms and the govt will help... medicaid, mediCAL... federal and state. No one is denied basic treatment. Yes - there is a ton of room for improvement, and there plenty of simple free market solutions that could solve some of the complicated issues. But insurance is not "price discrimination". By your logic, anyone who can't afford ANYthing they want is being discriminated against. That’s EXACTLY the logic that got us into the housing crisis we’re in now! Jimmy Carter’s administration said “we need to help people out who can’t afford a home”. Years later Clinton stood up and said “Everyone is entitled to the American dream! Everyone should be able to afford a home.” So we got the Community Reinvestment Act, which over time developed into a perverted program that forced banks to lend to people on the basis of “fairness” and “equality” (holy shit don’t even get me started on acorn’s roll in this) – and millions of people got loans they had no ability to repay. Do you see not see the parallels? I want a Ferrari and I don’t have one. Clearly this is discrimination by the Italians.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Image


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:02 pm 
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frostingspoon
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im going to copy and paste that response into my sniper file

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:57 pm 
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A True Aristocrat of Freedom

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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Some of the fun:

Quote:
Everyone in the US already has basic medical coverage. All they do is fill out the forms and the govt will help... medicaid, mediCAL... federal and state. No one is denied basic treatment. Yes - there is a ton of room for improvement, and there plenty of simple free market solutions that could solve some of the complicated issues. But insurance is not "price discrimination". By your logic, anyone who can't afford ANYthing they want is being discriminated against. That’s EXACTLY the logic that got us into the housing crisis we’re in now! Jimmy Carter’s administration said “we need to help people out who can’t afford a home”. Years later Clinton stood up and said “Everyone is entitled to the American dream! Everyone should be able to afford a home.” So we got the Community Reinvestment Act, which over time developed into a perverted program that forced banks to lend to people on the basis of “fairness” and “equality” (holy shit don’t even get me started on acorn’s roll in this) – and millions of people got loans they had no ability to repay. Do you see not see the parallels? I want a Ferrari and I don’t have one. Clearly this is discrimination by the Italians.


I love that people want to blame a housing crisis/market meltdown on Carter and/or Clinton.

Do you know how hard it was for me to get a loan from FHA in 2005? Like, we barely qualified for the amount we needed, much less some McMansion with a 10K/mo balloon payment in 3 years.

It was corrupt douches trying to make money, and people with no sense trying to "get in on the housing action" - AKA a classic market bubble.

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Next up...REPARATIONS!

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Elvis Fu Wrote:
Next up...REPARATIONS!


Also, rounding up all the honkies that have jobs and making them Godless, jobless communists through re-education camps.

I can only hope that they are like the ones in Red Dawn: "America is a WHORE HOUSE"

_________________
Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:00 pm 
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the hysteria, racism, and general denial of FACTS by so many americans around this issue is truly frightening.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:03 pm 
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billy g Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.


There were a whole helluva lot of dummies who convinced themselves Obama would govern like a moderate and a centrist despite all the evidence to the contrary.


Where would you say he's governed to the left of where he campaigned?

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:15 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
billy g Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
My two favorite strawmen in the post-passage era:

1. This is a shocking power grab and an overreach of power, etc: Um, no, this is pretty much what people campaigned on and were elected to do. To be shocked that the Democratic Party would actually have the audacity to pass a health care reform bill after campaigning to do just that for the last 60 years is to be both ignorant and stupid. The only shocking thing is that those sissies actually had the sac.


There were a whole helluva lot of dummies who convinced themselves Obama would govern like a moderate and a centrist despite all the evidence to the contrary.


Where would you say he's governed to the left of where he campaigned?


I was agreeing with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:23 pm 
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OHG

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care vote today
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:07 am 
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Right wingers should be exceptionally proud of this behavior:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/2 ... 11639.html


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