See, now why you gotta go and do that? I was trying to leave all of that out of this.

i'm sure you see straight through this, and you already know it, but isn't this a pure episode of objectification? that its an asshole thing to do to "buy" somebody else's girl? that the hilarity of the event was caused by the objectification of the woman? that you were a (self-proclaimed) asshole to see your buddy's girlfriend go dance in the first place?

No, because it was a fucking joke to be a dick to a friend. If w ecould've wrecked his car as a joke (you know for the $10 cost of lapdance) we would have done that, too. Cos Dat Funny. That's just the way we are.

you said that the dude deserved it but you were pretty sure she didn't. you were being a dick to a friend, but you know that was a dick thing to do to her. your joke to a dick friend, as innocent as your intentions were, objectified a woman.

[quote="Yail Bloor"]yo daddy killed she uncle[/quote

EASY! Oh yea...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

My intentiosn were anything BUT innocent. We (because I was really just an observer) wanted to fuck with him...and if we could do so by making him jealous or pissed that we had all seen his girl bucky naked, then fine. If we could have done it another way (say waiting til he fell asleep and blowing coke up his nose) we would have done that too.

The girl was secondary, and this argument is a hair splitting exercise. You and Haq should go to Scores or something. (Although, Scores looks sorry, next time y'all are down our way, we should all go to The Pony...it's like 1/2 mile from Derris's crib)

As in, you only needed her to achieve your larger objective?

Your definition of an object must be incredibly narrow.

maybe, just maybe, you should ask the woman in question (or any stripper for that matter) if she felt/feels objectified? I guaran-damn-tee that she doesn't and gladly pocketed that money without a second thought as to what some dudes thought.

See, you think you can speak for these broads being "objectified" b/c you think they lack the intelligence or point of view that you have---that's where you are wrong; most strippers would laugh at you or ask you if you wanted a dance.....They know what's up.

I knew when I typed it one of the wonder twins would *ZING* me on it.

I guess I connote objectification of women as an act of malicious intent, and something that in the mind makes one prone to think that women are there to be used for my purposes and thrown away. Admittedly, I did this to a certain extent with the above described action, but this is a smart capable girl balling out on money, supporting her sorry ass husband, and putting herself through school. She gets props for me from that, and from being smart enough to know that sooner or later she won't have her looks to carry, and bankin money for that day as well.

As I said, you fuckers are splitting hairs. But I doubt you have a wholy positive image of me anyway,what with the righteousness and all.

So Yail, it's impossible for someone to be objectively objectified?

Here's a scenario, intended not as an analogy but as an example of the logical conclusion of your argument:

A bunch of people strip down a Down's Syndrome kid, write "retard" on his back, and make him run laps. He loves it - he's glad everyone's enjoying themselves and he gets a cupcake at the end of it. Has he been objectified?

Certain members of LS are well acquainted with exotic dancers. As far as these ladies are concerned, anyone who walks in the door is a mark. That is to say, who's really benefitting?

They've got the cash and you've got an obner.

Woops.

most strippers I know or have spoken with know they are being totally objectified and really don't give a shit as long as the guys keep coughing up the cash.

i'm sorry my network of happy strippers isn't nearly as extensive as yours. the ones i've talked to are unhappy people.

what loog did was putting somebody else in a position where they were an object/pawn/"secondary" in order to achieve his end (of being a dick to his friend). if the woman was happy to oblige a $10 lap dance, was machiavellian in her nature just as much as you were (just as rodney was either advertantly or inadvertantly saying), then i guess you both walked away as objects . speaking objectively (har!), what loogar and his friends did was objectifying her, making her less of a human and more as a commodity.

as i said before, difference between being sexy and being a sex object. while loogar said she wasn't sexy, she was being treated as a sex object, whether she care to think of it that way or not.

Difference is, in this one, I see em try to do it and beat the ever loving shit out em.

I like you Dave, but I don't think I'm splitting hairs - I think you're defining "object" away into something that no dictionary would bear out. Either that or you do not believe that objectification of women is wrong if they like it. And I'll admit, it takes a dose of paternalism to still argue that it is wrong in that case. But it's also worth saying that it's possible that the effects of objectifying women who enjoy/put up with it can spill over to those who do not.

If these places could be sexually & socially healthy, free from the degradation that springs naturally from the fevered dreams of middle-aged divorcees watching the oscillations of young women their daughters' age, then I would be wholeheartedly for it, for I, too, love the human form.

Would that I could only escape my Protestant upbringing, and be able to appreciate flesh, form, and person indivisible and not have to worry, spinning my mind off to dwell upon my own relations, relations with women in my life whom I love, to worry about how I see them, to worry about how I view their bodies, to worry that I am too lascivious, or not enough.

But I am usually nothing but a ball of worries, and sexual & moral angst arises all too often without me going and adding a layer of commodification, or sitting somewhere where that gaze of mine is not allowed to be merely appreciative and encouraging, but must looks at the transactions of unhappy people, and I usually spend most of my energies making sure that those around me feel okay, that the women are not disgusted by the people whom I am with, that the guys I am with think that the girls are people, that people see that we are all decent people, both the customers and the strippers, and I exit later, exhausted by the effort it took to make sure that everyone was doing well, and I am sure that the girls are bewildered by this grinning guy who seems uninterested in a dance but is wondering if they are doing okay . . .

I actually kind of concede your point, that I my original argument about objectification contained an erronious definition. I'm just saying that I don't think what I did harmed anyone. Matter of fact, the girl made money on it, which in the end probably went to my sorry ass homeboy....

No.

If you go see an artist who's music is his art but who's art is borne of his rough life, abuse, addiction, or whatever; aren't you objectifying him???

I mean, you can carry this out to whatever logical or illogical ends that you want to. I honestly am lucky these days to make it into a strip club twice a year. When I go, I have fun----because see, strip clubs are fun. If the strippers are unhappy, tough tiittie, I don't like going to my job everyday either---just because you take off your clothes don't mean shit.

I mean katie and aaron, really, why do you guys even care? You obviously don't go to strip clubs so why are you concerned about their plight as opposed to other people who are exploited in their jobs? I mean feel for coal miners. Strippers at least get payed for their trouble.

Coal miners don't get paid? Someone should call the NLRB!

Admit it Chris, you like stripping retarded kids. IT'S WRONG!

i'm not sure if either of us said we don't care about other instances of exploitation. i just saw the subject and, y'know, whoa there i go, talking about the things that people talk about in stripper threads.

and i care because i don't think making people into objects is right, ever.

You guys are giving me an obner.

I thought this thread was gonna be about a website where I could turn boobs into wallpaper for my game room.

because i hate women and want to eliminate their choices.

this would not be a false statement.

FINALLY THE TRUTH COMES OUT!!