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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:04 am 
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RE: Dogfish Head - I've only had one of their beer, and that was their World Wide Stout. It was so intense that I could barely drink it. I'll definitely never drink it again. I'm not a big "hop head", so I avoid most of their stuff since they seem to really like their hops. I also avoid their Punkin' considering I've never met a pumpkin beer I've liked. I was pretty intrigued by their Bitches Brew, but never had the chance to drink any.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:32 am 
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Rick Derris Wrote:
Geek time. Can one of you explain to me the difference between a Witbier and a Tripel?

Just brew methods?

They seem pretty similar.


I can take a stab at it, but I don't know a shitload.

First it might help to just make sure you clear on the basic process that happens to make any beer:

1. You take barley and maybe wheat or other grains, but primarily barley, and you roast them dry for awhile. It's like coffee - if you don't roast them much they stay blonde and light, but if you roast for a long time you get dark dark brown grain that tastes more like burnt toast. Almost all beers have a mixture of different grains and roasts. More of these make a more complex tasting, fuller flavor beer. Using a lot of rice in the mix makes Bud Light... rice is cheap and it ferments without adding much flavor.

2. So then you take your mixture of grains and hops and you boil it in water at a certain temp for an hour or two. That takes these raw grains and starts to break them down - literally - into starches and sugars that the yeast looooove to eat. If you just threw yeast into a big tub of raw grain and water, not much would happen. This gets the party started. About the hops - if you put them in early, the sweeter, pinecone / green flavors tend to boil off and they taste a lot more bitter. If you dump them in at the last second before you shut the heat off, then they taste like Sierra Nevada IPA... pinecone green floral happyland smell. Most beers do some of both, and crazy hoppy beers will sometimes do a "continual hop" where they add hops throughout the whole burn, slowly and evenly, so you get the whole flavor spectrum.

3. Once the "wort" is cool, like down to 70 degrees or so, you dump in a bunch of yeast who are all riled up and looking to party. They're competing with bacteria in the air, so you stack the odds by getting them woken up first, and by putting a shitload of them in so they overpower any bacteria and take over the scene. Once they start eating those starches and sugars, they multiply and start pooping out 2 things: Carbon dioxide and alcohol.

4. This goes on for a month or two til the yeast are all done eating, fucking, and pooping. Then they crash on the couches at the bottom of the barrel, close the blinds, crank the AC to "SO COLD" and take a long nap. At this point you can filter, bottle, keg, whatever the beer. It's flat, so it needs carbonation somehow, but that's another topic. But it's beer at this point.




Ok so your question... Belgians like Witts and Dubbels and Tripels taste like they do because of a few common tricks the monks do. First the strain of yeast you use has a big impact on the final flavor. Some taste buttery, or lemony, or like bubblegum and bananas. And some are better at eating and fucking and pooping - they're more efficient than other strains. If you use a less efficient yeast, then the alcohol content will be lower, and the beer will taste sweeter. But using really efficient (same kind used to make champaign actually) yeast like the belgians tend to do, you get a stronger beer that tastes less sweet. So that's one trick. Another is adding certain other kinds of sugar to the wort... cheating if you will. They use a lot of beet sugars, and refined candy sugar. And the yeast LOVE that shit - so they gobble it up and poop out lots of booze, but you can't overdo it because the beer starts tasting like rubbing alcohol. Another thing they do is leave the yeast in the beer, instead of filtering it all out. That leaves the beer cloudy, and leaves it tasting a lot more like yeast.

Wittbier is a light colored, sweetish belgian beer that's completely unfiltered, I think. It's only fermented once, it has a modest alcohol content, and goes fucking great with an orange slice. They taste like they do because of lightly roasted malts, the particular yeast and hops they use, and the not filtering thing. That's all I know.

Dubbels and Tripels are fermented twice and three times, respectively. So back up there in the instructions, you've cooked up your barley and hops, cooled it, added yeast, and they're all done and crashed out on the floor of the barrel, snoozing. Then you open the lid and dump in more fuel for them - more barley, or even fruits all cooked and mashed up... anything sugary is probably a-ok with the yeast - they'll take a swing at eating it, and anything they can't eat will survive through to the final beer unless it gets filtered out. So in almost the same volume of liquid, you've got yeast who have been fed two or three times, which makes the alcohol content creep up. Or, the first go-round was with regular beer yeast, and they got it up to 5% and were all done. Then you open it up and dump in special high-efficiency yeast (champaign, Bretanomyces or however you spell it, etc)... these new guys look around and see a table full of sweet delicious scraps that the beer yeast couldn't eat, and they go nuts and get the alcohol up to 9 or 10%. Shit like that. Dubbels and Tripel are usually filtered, I think??? But maybe not always.


This was really awesome, and has me thoroughly intrigued, so i took the plunge and ordered a large-ish selection of Belgian's to taste.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Derris - That Trois Pistoles is just about the most aggressive, dark, alcoholic beer they make, I completely understand why you didn't dig it. I've had it 2 or 3 times, but I have to be in the mood for it - gotta get my game face on and clear out my afternoon for a 22oz of those. The Caracoles I mentioned, or Saison Dupont, or the Unibroue Ephemere, those are probably a tighter cluster around your bullseye. But this is the fun of it (for me at least)... I love to read other peoples' takes on stuff. I love how I can think one thing and be sure of it, then read something different about it, and completely see where you're coming from too.

Central Waters - That is my #2 favorite Wisconsin brewery behind Lake Louie. And that Winter Solstice is my favorite stout ever, period. I brought a sixpack of it back to Boston 2 winters ago and coveted that shit. I wouldn't drink it unless I was in a good mood, the wife was in a good mood, and we had a particularly good netflix in the mailbox.

Pete - awesome! Even though "belgians" do all share a similar-ish flavor, there's still a big spread to explore. Post up your thoughts afterwards if you can. I'm always surprised / excited to see what it's like for people to discover this stuff and really dig into it for the first time.

Shiv - I still haven't opened that Bitches Brew (Dogfish) bottle from that last big haul. I don't know what I'm saving it for, but I'm saving it.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:11 pm 
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I'm hoping they will arrive before the weekend.

This is what i ordered:

Brugse Zot Blond, Blond Speciality, 6.0%, 33cl, Bottle
Chimay Bleu, Dark Trappist beer, 9.0%, 33cl, Bottle
Chimay Rouge, Dark Trappist beer, 7.0%, 33cl, Bottle
Chimay Triple, Blond Trappist beer, 8.0%, 33cl, Bottle
De Koninck, Amber Speciale Belge, 5.0%, 25cl, Bottle
Delirium Tremens, Blond Speciality 8.5%, 33cl, Bottle
Kwak, Amber Speciality, 8.0%, 33cl, Bottle
Rochefort 10, Dark Trappist beer, 11.3%, 33cl, Bottle
St.Bernardus Abt 12, Dark Abbey beer, 10.5%, 33cl, Bottle
Verboden Vrucht, Dark Speciality, 8.5%, 33cl, Bottle
Gouden Carolus Ambrio, Amber Speciality, 8%, 33cl, Bottle

Do any of these need chilling at all? I have no idea, I've happily survived on Heiniken & other shitty lagers, so this could come as a shock.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:18 pm 
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"Shock" is right. Looks like you only have one blonde, and only a few that are on the milder side. I like mine about 8C or so... cool bot not cold. The colder something is, the less you can taste it. (See: Bud Light.) But I don't ike them at room temp, either.

You're in for some strong, strong stuff. Some of those like the Delirium Tremens have a really strong (to me anyway) alcohol flavor, and almost all are dark roasted malts. I'd say take your time, and I hope it goes well for you. Also anything you don't want just send this way :)

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:35 pm 
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discostu Wrote:
RE: Dogfish Head - I've only had one of their beer, and that was their World Wide Stout. It was so intense that I could barely drink it. I'll definitely never drink it again. I'm not a big "hop head", so I avoid most of their stuff since they seem to really like their hops. I also avoid their Punkin' considering I've never met a pumpkin beer I've liked. I was pretty intrigued by their Bitches Brew, but never had the chance to drink any.


You need to try their Raison D'Etre. It's a "raisin" beer, I guess, but I've never been particularly conscious of any raisin taste. It's just a really good beer that's more on the dark/malty side. It's one of my favorites, actually.

It's been mentioned several times already in this thread or the old one, I'm sure.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Drinky Wrote:
discostu Wrote:
RE: Dogfish Head - I've only had one of their beer, and that was their World Wide Stout. It was so intense that I could barely drink it. I'll definitely never drink it again. I'm not a big "hop head", so I avoid most of their stuff since they seem to really like their hops. I also avoid their Punkin' considering I've never met a pumpkin beer I've liked. I was pretty intrigued by their Bitches Brew, but never had the chance to drink any.


You need to try their Raison D'Etre. It's a "raisin" beer, I guess, but I've never been particularly conscious of any raisin taste. It's just a really good beer that's more on the dark/malty side. It's one of my favorites, actually.

It's been mentioned several times already in this thread or the old one, I'm sure.


That's funny, this is my least favorite beer of there that I tried. Tasted like a redeye made with prune juice instead of tomato.

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harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:50 pm 
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It is a little pruney. I like it fine, but I never buy it.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Gayford R. Tincture

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Vic Da Baron LooGAR Wrote:
Drinky Wrote:
discostu Wrote:
RE: Dogfish Head - I've only had one of their beer, and that was their World Wide Stout. It was so intense that I could barely drink it. I'll definitely never drink it again. I'm not a big "hop head", so I avoid most of their stuff since they seem to really like their hops. I also avoid their Punkin' considering I've never met a pumpkin beer I've liked. I was pretty intrigued by their Bitches Brew, but never had the chance to drink any.


You need to try their Raison D'Etre. It's a "raisin" beer, I guess, but I've never been particularly conscious of any raisin taste. It's just a really good beer that's more on the dark/malty side. It's one of my favorites, actually.

It's been mentioned several times already in this thread or the old one, I'm sure.


That's funny, this is my least favorite beer of there that I tried. Tasted like a redeye made with prune juice instead of tomato.


Yeah I'm guessing stu's taste in beer may differ from yours as much as mine does.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:53 pm 
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True, and I think the beer suffered a little from expectations, because I tried them when Cotton and Crack were posting about them nigh-daily. None were exactly terrible, they just weren't great either. Not sure what is supposed to set them apart as a US micro shop?

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:54 pm 
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I'm not their biggest advocate so I wouldn't know. I just really like that one.

I'm sure I've probably had a bunch Sierra Nevada beers that I like more than anything of theirs.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:59 pm 
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Their Black And Blue is real good too. I may try and pick up a bottle of it tonight.

I refuse to try the Festina Peche though because peaches are fucking gross.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:56 pm 
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Dogfish has kind of a unique taste cluster, if that's the right word for it. They don't all taste alike, but they all taste very STRONG, especially on the malt / solid ingredient side as opposed to just hops. They also go on some very long limbs and do some very odd shit. Sometimes I really like it. Like that Black and Blue, I fucking love that stuff.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Dogfish has kind of a unique taste cluster, if that's the right word for it.


Somehow, I can't find any appeal to the concept of drinking sludge out of a possum's ass, but hey, g'head...


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:32 pm 
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It's thick stuff, and must feel like road tar going through that cheesecloth of a liver you have.

:)

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
It's thick stuff, and must feel like road tar going through that cheesecloth of a liver you have.

:)


Hey, I've slowed down to a crawl the last year or so- liver's not even big as a medicine ball these days. But, I'll stick to my REAL Belgians all the same.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:54 pm 
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heh heh.

I bought a bottle of the 'Donk Amber last night. That craft beer expansion at my grocery store (2 minute walk from my door) continues unabated. They have almost doubled how much they carry, and they had a lot for a grocery store. I had to stop myself at 3 22's, because I only brought a small backpack and still had to get other stuff.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Derris - That Trois Pistoles is just about the most aggressive, dark, alcoholic beer they make, I completely understand why you didn't dig it. I've had it 2 or 3 times, but I have to be in the mood for it - gotta get my game face on and clear out my afternoon for a 22oz of those. The Caracoles I mentioned, or Saison Dupont, or the Unibroue Ephemere, those are probably a tighter cluster around your bullseye. But this is the fun of it (for me at least)... I love to read other peoples' takes on stuff. I love how I can think one thing and be sure of it, then read something different about it, and completely see where you're coming from too.



Totally agree that it's half the fun finding out what you DON'T like. It's like restaurant reviews. They're a good guide and some opinions you value more than others, but, in the end my taste can differ wildly from someone elses.

Got the Weihenstephaner tasting tonight after work.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:30 pm 
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Pete Roach Wrote:
Chimay Bleu, Dark Trappist beer, 9.0%, 33cl, Bottle
Rochefort 10, Dark Trappist beer, 11.3%, 33cl, Bottle
St.Bernardus Abt 12, Dark Abbey beer, 10.5%, 33cl, Bottle

Do any of these need chilling at all? I have no idea, I've happily survived on Heiniken & other shitty lagers, so this could come as a shock.



Damn man. Great haul. I've only had the ones quoted and am obsessed with them. So fucking good.

I actually take them out of the fridge about 5 minutes before I want to drink them then pour.

I like the way that, as they warm, the compexity starts to change. Just amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:29 am 
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I got problems.

Weihenstephaner tasting tonight. Figured the best way to jump into Germany would be the world's oldest brewery.

They had the following:

Image

One of the better Hefe's I've had. It's 35 degrees outside so it wasn't perfectly suited for this day but I could easily see myself ordering this on a hot summer day. A-


Image


This is their Weizenbock (sp?) and after the Hefe this went down GREAT. Seemed MUCH smoother than the Hefe. A little more alcohol but a little more body. Best one of the night. I actually ordered one because the place holding the tasting had it on draft and with purchase you got a large beer glass.

Image

Their doppelbock. Whoa. This was a 180 degree from the other 2. Lots of toffee/coffee-ish flavors and way heavier. We tried it and after people were leaving the guy that was hosting gave me and the guy I was with one for free to split (he was a UGA fan and we'd been talking about signing day). We drank it but outside of the context of a beer tasting I"m not sure I'd return to it. Maybe in a snowstorm or something. For breakfast.


Afterwards we went across the street where I got:

Caracole - Nostradamus
Brooklyn #2
St. Bernardus 4 pack sampler - because I've been wanting a goblet and it came with it.


I'm getting fat and broke.


Last edited by Rick Derris on Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:30 am 
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Also, I'd like to say with all of this. If I ever turn my nose up at Bud Light someone punch me in the face.

It'll have it's place in my life.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:44 am 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
I got problems.

Weihenstephaner tasting tonight. Figured the best way to jump into Germany would be the world's oldest brewery.

They had the following:

Image

One of the better Hefe's I've had. It's 35 degrees outside so it was perfectly suited for this guy but I could easily see myself ordering this on a hot summer day. A-


Image


This is their Weizenbock (sp?) and after the Hefe this went down GREAT. Seemed MUCH smoother than the Hefe. A little more alcohol but a little more body. Best one of the night. I actually ordered one because the place holding the tasting had it on draft and with purchase you got a large beer glass.

Image

Their doppelbock. Whoa. This was a 180 degree from the other 2. Lots of toffee/coffee-ish flavors and way heavier. We tried it and after people were leaving the guy that was hosting gave me and the guy I was with one for free to split (he was a UGA fan and we'd been talking about signing day). We drank it but outside of the context of a beer tasting I"m not sure I'd return to it. Maybe in a snowstorm or something. For breakfast.


Afterwards we went across the street where I got:

Caracole - Nostradamus
Brooklyn #2
St. Bernardus 4 pack sampler - because I've been wanting a goblet and it came with it.


I'm getting fat and broke.


i wouldn't really call these problems.

glad to see you got the nostradamus. did they have any others there?

and i had the brooklyn #1 tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:50 am 
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Yeah, they had the Saxo (?) I believe.

Not sure what else they make. Was going off Cap' n's suggestion.

Sippin on the St. Bernardus Prior 8 right now.

NP- Twin Shadow


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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:07 am 
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yeah that's one of them. there's also the troublette and the caracole amber. the former is just ok but the latter is probably my favorite of theirs followed closely by the nostradamus.

i also bought this tonight but probably won't get to it until...tomorrow maybe? anyone had it?

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 Post subject: Re: A New Nice Beer Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:10 am 
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Oh shit. I've almost pulled the trigger on that for 2 weeks.

Tentoze is a big fan I believe.

Check a couple pages back.


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