Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Bush....er...Bueller?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:52 pm 
Offline
Hipster Backlash
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:05 pm
Posts: 2964
Location: A Very Red State
Here's Ben Stein's take on Katrina and Bush:

From the American Spectator:
QUOTE
A few truths, for those who have ears and eyes and care to know the truth:

1.) The hurricane that hit New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama was an astonishing tragedy. The suffering and loss of life and peace of mind of the residents of those areas is acutely horrifying.

2.) George Bush did not cause the hurricane. Hurricanes have been happening for eons. George Bush did not create them or unleash this one.

3.) George Bush did not make this one worse than others. There have been far worse hurricanes than this before George Bush was born.

4.) There is no overwhelming evidence that global warming exists as a man-made phenomenon. There is no clear-cut evidence that global warming even exists. There is no clear evidence that if it does exist it makes hurricanes more powerful or makes them aim at cities with large numbers of poor people. If global warming is a real phenomenon, which it may well be, it started long before George Bush was inaugurated, and would not have been affected at all by the Kyoto treaty, considering that Kyoto does not cover the world's worst polluters -- China, India, and Brazil. In a word, George Bush had zero to do with causing this hurricane. To speculate otherwise is belief in sorcery.

5.) George Bush had nothing to do with the hurricane contingency plans for New Orleans. Those are drawn up by New Orleans and Louisiana. In any event, the plans were perfectly good: mandatory evacuation. It is in no way at all George Bush's fault that about 20 percent of New Orleans neglected to follow the plan. It is not his fault that many persons in New Orleans were too confused to realize how dangerous the hurricane would be. They were certainly warned. It's not George Bush's fault that there were sick people and old people and people without cars in New Orleans. His job description does not include making sure every adult in America has a car, is in good health, has good sense, and is mobile.

6.) George Bush did not cause gangsters to shoot at rescue helicopters taking people from rooftops, did not make gang bangers rape young girls in the Superdome, did not make looters steal hundreds of weapons, in short make New Orleans into a living hell.

7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.

8.) George Bush is rushing every bit of help he can to New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama as soon as he can. He is not a magician. It takes time to organize huge convoys of food and now they are starting to arrive. That they get in at all considering the lawlessness of the city is a miracle of bravery and organization.

9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.

10.) If the energy the news media puts into blaming Bush for an Act of God worsened by stupendous incompetence by the New Orleans city authorities and the malevolence of the criminals of the city were directed to helping the morale of the nation, we would all be a lot better off.

11.) New Orleans is a great city with many great people. It will recover and be greater than ever. Sticking pins into an effigy of George Bush that does not resemble him in the slightest will not speed the process by one day.

12.) The entire episode is a dramatic lesson in the breathtaking callousness of government officials at the ground level. Imagine if Hillary Clinton had gotten her way and they were in charge of your health care.

God bless all of those dear people who are suffering so much, and God bless those helping them, starting with George Bush.

****
UPDATE: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.:

More Mysteries of Katrina:

Why is it that the snipers who shot at emergency rescuers trying to save people in hospitals and shelters are never mentioned except in passing, and Mr. Bush, who is turning over heaven and earth to rescue the victims of the storm, is endlessly vilified?

What church does Rev. Al Sharpton belong to that believes in passing blame and singling out people by race for opprobrium and hate?

What special abilities does the media have for deciding how much blame goes to the federal government as opposed to the city government of New Orleans for the aftereffects of Katrina?

If able-bodied people refuse to obey a mandatory evacuation order for a city, have they not assumed the risk that ill effects will happen to them?

When the city government simply ignores its own sick and hospitalized and elderly people in its evacuation order, is Mr. Bush to blame for that?

Is there any problem in the world that is not Mr. Bush's fault, or have we reverted to a belief in a sort of witchcraft where we credit a mortal man with the ability to create terrifying storms and every other kind of ill wind?

Where did the idea come from that salvation comes from hatred and criticism and mockery instead of love and co-operation?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:58 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:04 pm
Posts: 9783
Location: NOLA
Can he at least stop referring to coastal Louisiana and Mississippi as "that part of the world?"

And I'll add that this was/is a colossal fuck up at the local, state, and federal level (Bush included) 100 years in the making. PERIOD.

_________________
I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


Last edited by Kingfish on Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:58 pm 
Offline
The Obner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:48 pm
Posts: 4479
I was waiting for the punchline before I realized it wasn't a joke and just some inane rhetoric.

_________________
[img]https://i.imgur.com/OV6GpTD.jpg[/img]


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:22 pm 
Offline
Rape Gaze
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:03 pm
Posts: 27347
Location: bitch i'm on the internet
Ben, just give Bush a BJ and be done with it.

_________________
Image


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:29 pm 
Offline
Self-Released 7-Inch
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:46 am
Posts: 1149
um...i stopped when he said that shit about global warming....

oh, and btw, when shit happens on your watch: you get blamed for it......its been that way since before george w. bush was born....

and most people i know do not blame him for the hurricane, they just can not understand why he decided to cut his vacation short 3 days after the hurricane.....

(and why fema was gutted, and why the army core of engineers budget was slashed in 2001....)

but to be fair this has been predicted since what 1998?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:32 pm 
Offline
Natural Harvester
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 23083
Location: Portland, OR
but but but......

Image


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:33 pm 
Offline
Natural Harvester
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 23083
Location: Portland, OR
Eddie Basden Wrote:
I was waiting for the punchline before I realized it wasn't a joke and just some inane rhetoric.


this wasn't written by Michael Moore jackass.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:47 pm 
Offline
Natural Harvester
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 23083
Location: Portland, OR
another point from the Spectator, in regards to the lawlessness and dangerous culture in New Orleans:

"Conservative black leaders have been mau-maued into silence whenever they tell the truth about this barbarism and call for dramatic reform. But they are the ones who must lead the city now, and the phonies at organizations like the NAACP who despite all their rhetoric haven't done a thing to help the black underclass should step aside. Hurricane Katrina has made vivid the civilizational collapse they have long tried to conceal".

Why aren't there people screaming about how the NAACP has done NOTHING to help the conditions in NO?

Oh yeah, it's easier to pin it to Bush.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:55 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
The only real exception I can see is to Stein's point #8, in that the organization could have been prepared beforehand.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:01 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
Dalen Wrote:
But they are the ones who must lead the city now


In an interesting parallel, the Jamestown flood is often credited with giving a kick-start to the progressive movement. Very similar circumstances, very similar disparity in the economic status of the vicitims.

Katrina and the meltdown in New Orleans might be just the catalyst needed for a more effective approach to attack poverty.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:12 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
Though Hurricane Katrina is not the fault of George Bush, when the nation's largest seaport ends up underwater, it becomes the President's problem.

I seriously doubt any state and municipal government would be able to handle a catastrophe of such significance with better results.

That's where my problem lies. It's not what happened before, but what happened after, and how and why it took so long for the federal government to figure out which end was its ass and which end was its elbow.

Both FEMA Director Michael Brown and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff have claimed that they didn't know there were people holed up at the Convention Center until what, Friday? Jesus Christ, I knew there were people there on Saturday in addition to the Superdome and 7-8 other shelter points throughout the city. This is either gross incompetence or an outright lie for them to assert that they had no idea there were people there until 4-5 days after the hurricane had hit.

These two men should be grilled for answers to determine if this were a case of incompentence or deception, and I see little reason in either case to allow them to continue serving in their current positions. To me, Bush's culpability right now resides with the political back slapping and fist pumping rather than throwing Chertoff and/or Brown to the wolves.

In all reality, things could have been even worse. Despite lawless opportunists around town, there was no riot at the Convention Center.

This account also details the procedure of actually evacuating the city, from the viewpoint of a normal citizen fleeing the storm. It's long, but an interesting read.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:17 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
Billzebub Wrote:
Dalen Wrote:
But they are the ones who must lead the city now


In an interesting parallel, the Jamestown flood is often credited with giving a kick-start to the progressive movement. Very similar circumstances, very similar disparity in the economic status of the vicitims.

Katrina and the meltdown in New Orleans might be just the catalyst needed for a more effective approach to attack poverty.


Interesting you should say that. David Brooks, who ain't anywhere near bedbuddies with Michael Moore, wrote this column that is of a similar vein.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:25 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:11 pm
Posts: 8881
Location: *3
http://www.wired.com/news/planet/0,2782 ... tophead_10

_________________
@--


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:41 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:24 am
Posts: 17359
Location: cogthrobber
For being so smart, Stein's pretty dumb. I realize he's addressing claims that Bush is racist and that the govenment is callous. I don't believe that and it's not my issue with the government . Like Elvis Fu said, the issue is why the feds didn't realize they had to step in days earlier when it was obvious even to twerps like me in a tiny town in northern Maine that there was little infrastructure remaining to rescue or provide security. I knew that by Tuesday morning. I bet people closer to the area knew it by Sunday night.

It was massive failure from top to bottom and lessons need to be learned from it and improvements implemented.

That said, all hail the actual rescuers. They did, and are doing, a monumental job.


Last edited by no guru on Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:55 pm 
Offline
Natural Harvester
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 23083
Location: Portland, OR
i personally think this man is responsible for quite a bit of the confusion and lack of preperation...

Image

that's why he's in hiding.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:11 pm 
Offline
Major Label Sell Out

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:37 pm
Posts: 1848
Location: DFW.
Tom Morello?


Back to top
 Profile YIM 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:22 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
Dalen Wrote:
i personally think this man is responsible for quite a bit of the confusion and lack of preperation...

Image

that's why he's in hiding.


In hiding? I saw him this morning. He has a full beard now, which is pretty damn cool.

I'm not a native, adn I haven't asked any of my native friends what they think of Nagin, but the article I linked earlier claims that Nagin actually took steps to make the evacuation process more effective.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:26 pm 
Offline
Winona Ryder wears my t-shirt on TV

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:10 pm
Posts: 2532
Location: Cleveland, OH
http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:30 pm 
Offline
Hipster Backlash

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:20 am
Posts: 2869
#4 is the one of real interest to me. Nobody on either side of this issue can talk rationally about it.

For my part, I can argue either side depending on who I'm talkin' to. :wink:

Steve


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:36 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
I also like Nagin because he gets pissed, and he ain't afraid to throw around "goddamn".

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:43 pm 
Offline
Troubador
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:23 pm
Posts: 3605
Location: Far South of Hell
Dalen Wrote:
i personally think this man is responsible for quite a bit of the confusion and lack of preperation...

Image

that's why he's in hiding.


that's just silly, misinformed speculation


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:50 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
Borg166 Wrote:
http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3


That's some good shit.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:42 pm 
Offline
Hipster Backlash

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:20 am
Posts: 2869
Picture of the "John Wayne dude" Nagin mentions in his rant:

USAF Lt. General Russell Honore
Image


Last edited by Dunwoody Dude on Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:12 pm 
Offline
Natural Harvester
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 23083
Location: Portland, OR
seafoamrush Wrote:
Dalen Wrote:
i personally think this man is responsible for quite a bit of the confusion and lack of preperation...

Image

that's why he's in hiding.


that's just silly, misinformed speculation


he was the person that ordered everyone to evacuate to the Superdome, knowing very well that that facility wasn't prepared for it.

yeah, that worked well.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:56 pm 
Offline
"Weddings, Parties, Anything…"
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:01 pm
Posts: 843
Location: Houston, TX
What George Bush can certainly be blamed for is a lack of leadership in time of crisis. He didn't get off his ass and actually talk about the disaster until days after, and the speech he gave after visiting New Orleans was ludicrous. This was before the Superdome and the convention center were evacuated. After basically giving some bullshit, "We've got a lot of work to do, but people are working hard," kind of speech, he said something to the effect that he believes New Orleans will be rebuilt and be an even better city, blah, blah, blah. It's like, that's not the point jackass. They're are people stranded in the city dying and you're talking about rebuilding. It shows what's important to Bush. It's important that the port and the oil pipelines bet back to normal status. It's important that New Orleans tourism industry gets back up and running, so Bush and other white businessmen from Houston can go escape to the French quarter for free titties, 40 different flavors of frozen margaritas, and handjobs. But he doesn't care about poor people dying because they didn't have the means to escape the city or the money to live on higher ground. Fuck Bush. That's what people are pissed about. No one's blaming the hurricane on him. But as president, he has a job to do in times of disaster, and I don't think he did it very well.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Style by Midnight Phoenix & N.Design Studio
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.