considering what I have studied and where I have lived it's embarrasing I don't know this.

Suggestions?

You werent perchance watching Cheers with the episode where Rebecca pretends she likes Mahler because of some rich guy? heh

me, I dont like Mahler..

no, but I do love his wife Alma Mahler. Muse of the 20th century

Dunkel ist das Leben.... ist der Tod.

Start with Das Lied von der Erde.... if you like the use of the human voice against the lugubrious melancholy of powerful late Romantic orchestration then keep going.

I like the 3rd and 4th Symphonies... the choirs, women and boys, in the 3rd... the adagios which seem like bittersweet angels circling around and around.

Then the 2nd... very crisp and approachable.

And then if you've made it that far... the monumental 9th and the fragmentary, demanding unfinished 10th. Skip the 8th (Symphony of 1.000... overrated IMHO).

During it all... read through all of Rilke.... especially the Duino Elegies... for the whole, true weltschmertz....

And remember... it is getting worse... everything... but in its dying away, there is great beauty...

ysi???

Go to your public library and check out what they've got.

Harry's got good picks and good advice, but I like going chronologically, and if you read music, check out the scores and read along. Also, to get a true impact of how nutty the guy was (nutty for nutty's sake in my opinion), and how profoundly he impacted western music, you ought to have a knowledge of J.S. Bach (CPE Bach too if you've got time, remarkable stuff and criminally unknown due to living in his dad's shadow, kind of. When they were alive, he was actually much more highly regarded, but that sure didn't last), Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, into Mahler.

Check out the Norton Anthology of Western Music and the cd's that go with them for excerpts, or if you've got the inclination, take a Music History class. You don't have to be a musician to hear what they're getting at.

Bach = The foundational rules of Western Harmony, even till today, and an incredible refinement of those rules in the mere 65 years of his life

Mozart = Refinement and concentration of those rules as they applied to motif and form. Also, some killer unexpected twists, harmonically speaking, with the use of only rudimentary chromaticism.

Beethoven = Further refinement till he pushed the envelope so far that romanticism with it's lush chromaticism happened, almost enzymatically. It was a quick worldwide shift, and he was the man with the uninentional plan. He couldn't play within Bach's rules so he carefully rewrote some of them. It's a new ball game.

Brahms = kind of a throwback. Sort of the Strokes/White Stripes of classical, but with an incisive compositional attack that trimmed tons of fat, yet still sounded heavy as fuck. Didn't really change the game, but was really one of a few to stand out in the post Beethoven world. Beethoven is totally the Beatles of the classical world, alot of parallels between their careers and what they did for the popular music of their time. Alot of people tried to beat Beethoven at his thing, and failed miserably.

Mahler = the NWA of the classical world. He said fuck your rules, i'm out to bend your ear in ways that'll make the nerdy set shit in their tighty whities. His manipulation of chromaticism was absurd. He knew the only way to make a mark, as far as music theory is concerned, was to chuck everything, take something impossible and unsavory, and make people dig on it. After him, 12-tone serialism was a foregone conclusion. You couldn't get any further "out" in western harmony without going atonal or microtonal.

Not that you need to know any of that to enjoy mahler, but as a performer, I had dug all these guys, but then getting the backstory made the compositions alot more alive and real to me.

Then I decided that classical musicans are an unsavory lot, and in the words of Eric Carmen, "I'm a rocker."

brilliant

I've said it before, and I'll say it agian, Symphony # 1. Get The Vienna Phil under Maazel.

Yeah, but minus that god-awful Eb soprano clarinet solo. But Eb clarinet solos are usually god-awful no matter who wrote them...



You got that right. Once I figured out that the symphony orchestra is much like high school (gossip, backstabbing, lots of shit-talking) I decided I didn't want to spend every day of my life with people like this. Though I do miss it from time to time.


Edit: I just remembered that when I was a freshman in college, I went to some party held by a bunch of music students. Another freshmen who was a trumpet player was there, and he got smashed on hunch punch. He told everyone there that listening to Mahler gave him a hard-on.

well hot damn, that compliment made my day. And billz is right, although i'd say it's more maazel than vienna. He's a brilliant conductor. Arrogant prick, but one of the greatest conductors of any time. Also compare it to recordings with von Karajan conducting, or Abbado.

damn given these replies, now I must listen again,, but seeing as I have no musical theory, I probably still wont like em.. ah well, hoist up and try

That's o.k. i don't like the clash, and i'm not about to try.

I'll send you some Shostakovitch instead...

I'll look through my cds and see if i can find some good mahler performances to ysi.

see, when I was in orchestras all the time I knew this stuff backwards and forwards. now, I am a mess.
I definitely can call out your basics but it gets harder further on. I really like
Siebellius.

Im not a huge clash fan, is it because Im white?

I can dig some Shostakovitch.. when I first got my turntable I went crazy at the various salvation armies. One place I found a pristine collection of various 'classical' music- guy really took care of his stuff- ie. Nagaoka 102 sleeves.

Oh and I picked up that Specialized tricross- sweet bike- I bought the 'cheaper' sport version though

Oooh... Sym #2 SLAYS. Finlandia is a cool tone poem. He was a nutty character, a hero in his country, and a fat ass. He had a beautiful young wife, and he was too out of shape to get up on down hilly streets, so she'd have to haul his ass around in a wheelbarrow.

Now that's a woman.

What did you play?

nice on both counts. You having fun haulin ass?

Not to hijack the thread..but yeah- although Im way out of shape and dont have the time I used to (given the twins).

Now back to your previously scheduled programming

EDIT: the great thing about 'classical' is how much vinyl you can get for cheap.. for a music fan, its incredible..

Mehta -early. Bernstein - late. Walter - the standard.

Bruno Walter is so awesome it's ridiculous.

I like Reiner too for Mahler.

my bestest Julliard composer pal told me to start with Lied von der Erde as well. Just got it.

MY HS music teacher graduated from Julliard.. musically a genius, socially a poor poor man


Damn I wonder if he still works there or whether NYC ate him up alive already

this boy is a genius.
went there for pre-college, undergrad and grad school.
works with Milton Babbit.
talent out the nose
and a sweetheart to boot!

Most people would suggest starting with Mahler's role as "Fackler" in Police Academy, but I think his role as the blabbermouth Rabbi Glickman in Seinfeld is actually more accessible.