We should just say "fuck you guys, we're going home".

Lebanon is a Muslim & Christian country and probably the most westernized of the region (Egypt is pretty westernized too)

Way to go Israel

I'm rootin' for Israel. And fuck the EU.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, or even understand what is going on beyond what I've read/seen/etc but it seems like Israel is overreacting completely. I love how Bush calls this "self defense".

Not to blindly defend Israel, but it's not that simple. From what I understand, Lebanon's gov't is pretty much controlled by Syria (though there is a movement within Lebanon to change that), so Hezbollah pretty much has free reign inside Lebanon. I think Hezbollah's best way to strike Israel is from within Lebanon.

It would definitely suck to be Lebanese right now. Or to be anyone in that region right now, I guess.

What I wonder is whether the Lebanese gov't's claim that it can't control Hezbollah is actually true, or to what degree it is. Israel doesn't seem to buy it.

Hezbollah basically bypasses the lebanese government for the most part and gets it's funding and support from Syria & Iran. It does have a political presence too, somewhat comparable to the IRA/Sinn Fein i suppose.

Hezbollah operates without much control from the lebanese govt, neither supporting or trying to keep the reigns on

I dont know how you can justify retaliation of this level however

Yep.

yeah but you're an american in politics - that's a given

at what price of oil do we stop giving a shit about what happens in that region at all? like africa?

Let's all trade in our cars for motorcycles.

Cos I'm sure you rock the bio-diesel mobile, and have nothing made of plastic.

Also, what does Israel have to do with oil?

what does your post have to do with my post?

if I have to connect those dots it not even worth the time.

Like playin cards with my sister's kids

just go call something Gar on your blog and stop bothering people.

But does that mean it's wrong? Do you disagree with a Jewish homeland considering what happened in WWII? And considering the modern history of Israel, do you think their policies are bad?


But when comes down to it, how are we ever gonna solve the middle east problem as long as Israel exists? I mean doesn't everybody involved have some sort of point and claim?

I don't disagree with a jewish homeland but i do disagree with alot of their fervent nationalistic policies - just as fundamentalist and reductionist as the Islamic extremists. I guess going back to 1967 borders would best possible compromise.

I actually know quite a few Arabs whose families have moved here to try and escape the violence, including a girl from Jerusalem. You can see how fundamentalist groups can get a foothold there - it's so hopeless. The israeli army is just so technologically overwhelming. Then a group like Hamas can come along helping to rebuild schools, provide food etc and get an easy ride into leadership

No doubt. All fundmentalism is a problem but doesn't it go beyond that? I don't think it's just fundamentalist that have a problem with each other. But yeah, it's true fundamentalist and drug lords pray on the poor and provide for them at the same time. Vicious circle. I"m not disagreeing with you but I have serious doubts about Israel viability in the middle east without the "US policies" that are so terrible. It's so intertwined and confusing and messed up that I don't think anyone is capable of understanding it totally or sorting it out.

Imagine living in Oklahoma and having every other state within striking distance hate you and have governments that have philosophies that dictate and support your annhiliation. Not exactly that Peaceful Easy Feeling that that one band mentions.

On a somewhat related but not really at all note:

WHAT THE FUH!!!

i dont think anyone would notice if oklahoma went missing

how did you even find this

I was thinking the other day about all the people that reference the "revisionist" historians that try and say that the holocaust was never real. And so I did an internet search. I just have never met anyone that believed that crap and came upon that site. If you read the forum though, you can tell it is like a bunch of teenagers or something. Even we post with more coherence and proper grammar on Obner.

Anyone take this poll yet?

I, for one, am all for it. But that's obvious. I am a southern white male. And I am skerred of them blacks.

those pie charts are pretty awesome