This article is a great example of how politics works and how dangerous it is to completely dismiss people because of their political differences (for example, I read people all the time on here dismissing people just because they are Republicans, or (to a lesser extent) Democrats, or Christians or whatever). Anyway:



http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1565076,00.html?cnn=yes

I like this part:

This produces an interesting question. If OPA! had AIDS, would I still beat my wife?

megapastor

wtf?

thanks for posting that.

one of my best friends in high school's father was Billy Graham's tour manager. The old man was fond of my buddy and would send him all sorts of crazy shit.

interestingly enough, his dad was a trip as well. The first time I met him, he told me about how the one time he took mushrooms and jumped out a window because he was listening to the beatles and the (apparently solid and visible) notes were crowding him into a corner. He told me this in church, knowing full well that his son had started smoking pot thanks indirectly to me. He was also a top-notch beatles fan. I forgot all about that story.

We used to take acid and go see Kathryn Kuhlman heal the lame, put people under the spirit and hear 8,000 speaking in tongues...

Those were the days... Even Billy Graham was fun.

Now it's all boxstore SUV religion. The Potter's House indeed.

Obama can and should talk to the evangelicals... we can welcome them back into the mainstream...it'd be good for everybody.

The difference between Billy Graham and and the cretinous holy right is that Graham truly believed in sharing his belief with other people. He wasn't self-righteous or judgmental and had no interest in condemnation or powermongering, though he was an awesome networker and friend-maker of the powerful, just not for the same reasons most people are.

He was a rare conservative evangelical, that's for sure; a man who believed purely, without ulterior motive or secret scandal.

The closest equivalent I can think of right now is Chuck Swindoll. He's not as charismatic as Graham but is equally troubled by the political hammerfisting and self-righteous babblenathy of the Christian right.

But, we must remember, Billy begat Franklin, & Franklin is an asshole.

<---Obama fan

<---not a Christian hater

It's so weird how lately in the states the word "Christian" now seems to be synonymous with "republican" and/or "evangelical" and/or "fundamentalist".

thank you polly, you get my point.

His church is about a 5-minute drive from my house.

Most of the Christians I know are off at anti-war marches, protecting the environment, and marrying teh gheys. Even the strict catholics I know are too busy going to church, praying for people in rough times, and trying to do good in the world to get involved in all that hating.

Oh I don't think the word "Christian" has meant Republican at all... if so, only in a public media cartoon understanding sense

Evangelical, born again, pentecostal, charismatic, faith-based, right to life, family values... all language that may mean Republican

What is in motion is a sense among some evangelicals that there are some things that are important to those who have felt the work of the holy spirit. Being a good steward of God's creation. Caring about the unborn child, but also caring about the child after being born... I was hungry and ye fed me...etc. Those are not Republican... at least not in the sense of public policy.

I am gonna love the rest of this decade.

There is also a perception that this Republican coalition of fundamentalists, fiscal-conservatives, and neocons that has dominated American politics since 1980 may be crumbling. My opinion is that:

1. Religous people need to get the hell out of politics

2. All politicians (and all Americans) need to become more fiscally conservative on some level. This debt, both personal and national, is some bullshit.

3. The neocons need to go away. Forever. They were wrong even when they were right.

The thing that stands out the most to me with the religious right, other than the fact that my dad is so much like them, is the abundance of logical fallacies they use. It is completely illogical for them to say that because Obama is pro-choice that he can offer nothing useful on AIDS. I wish someone would just go to the basics of reasoning for these people and tell them outright that they make no sense when they say things like that and are being completely illogical.

I understand what polly is saying but I see it from a little bit of a different perspective. As a Christian, I have struggled with the fact that other Christians tend to offer me a false sense of guilt when I speak negatively of conservative republicans in power.

Now I know many of you will ridicule me for this, but I did not vote. As a matter of fact, I have never voted. Not once; not even for homecoming king and queen in high school. However, in relation to this, I had a handful of people (christian acquaintances) ask me if I was going to vote. I would tell them no. They'd say, "well don't you think that it would be a good idea to vote someone in who does not think that abortion is ok". Although that's a paraphrased version of their question, I would respond, "No. I cannot in good conscience sign my name to 'the lesser of two evils' mantra that my fellow christian right wing associations enlist. Also, I will tell them this, and this gets them in a major huff, "Christ, in essence, commanded/suggested that we live by principles. I do not think that voting in a racist, noose hanging, confederate flag waving candidate is really what God would want me to do on principle just because the candidate is pro-life." I also mention to them that i don't think that when I am facing God for judgement that He is going to condemn me because I didn't vote for George Allen in the 2006 election.

I get infuriated with the notion that Christian/Evangelical/Protestant/Charismatic means republican, ultra-conservative, holy war with Islam, gay hating, woman deriding, and irrationality in this America.

On the other hand, I am also frustrated and a little bothered by the fact that whenever I claim to be a Christian people lose a certain level of respect for me because inevitably those stereotypes and presumptions outweigh what someone knows or could know of me.

Yail (and anyone else), if you want to see a crazy trailer for a documentary that my friend saw and said is actually as disturbing as the trailer, WATCH THIS

I'm not gonna lie, this has actually affected me more than I thought. It's been unintentional but I've found myself withdrawing from a lot of the Christians on this board, and in real life.

don't you understand that America wants those evil Christians out so we can make it safer and more accommodating for Muslims.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/01/D8LOC15O0.html

Me too. It's interesting to discover prejudices in yourself. But at least we're aware of them and that they're prejudices.

I really cherish and enjoy those prejudices, so I'd hate to give them up.

as a friend of mine says: if you want to be in politics pay fucking taxes like the rest of us

I started to post something about my beliefs this morning and the board seized up.

Divine Intervention?