Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: race in indie rock
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:13 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 7979
Interesting article from yesterday's New York Times about the role of blacks in indie rock. It was brought to my attention because of the mention of This Moment in Black History and Gooski's. I thought it was a good read.

Quote:
Truly Indie Fans

By JESSICA PRESSLER

WHEN Douglas Martin first saw the video for Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” as a teenager in High Point, N.C., “it blew my mind,” he said. Like many young people who soothe their angst with the balm of alternative rock, Mr. Martin was happy to discover music he enjoyed and a subculture where he belonged.

Except, as it turned out, he didn’t really belong, because he is black.

“For a long time I was laughed at by both black and white people about being the only black person in my school that liked Nirvana and bands like that,” said Mr. Martin, now 23, who lives in Seattle, where he is recording a folk-rock album.

But 40 years after black musicians laid down the foundations of rock, then largely left the genre to white artists and fans, some blacks are again looking to reconnect with the rock music scene.

The Internet has made it easier for black fans to find one another, some are adopting rock clothing styles, and a handful of bands with black members have growing followings in colleges and on the alternative or indie radio station circuit. It is not the first time there has been a black presence in modern rock. But some fans and musicians say they feel that a multiethnic rock scene is gathering momentum.

“There’s a level of progress in New York in particular,” said Daphne Brooks, an associate professor of African-American studies at Princeton. She was heartened last summer by the number of children of color in a class she taught at the Willie Mae Rock Camp for Girls, where kids learn to play punk-rock standards.

There is even a new word for black fans of indie rock: “blipster,” which was added to UrbanDictionary .com last summer, defined as “a person who is black and also can be stereotyped by appearance, musical taste, and/or social scene as a hipster.”

Bahr Brown, an East Harlem resident whose Converse sneakers could be considered blipster attire, opened a skateboard and clothing boutique, Everything Must Go, in the neighborhood in October, to cater to consumers who, like himself, want to dress with the accouterments of indie rock: “young people who wear tight jeans and Vans and skateboard through the projects,” he said.

“And all the kids listen to indie rock,” he said. “If you ask them what’s on their iPod, its Death Cab for Cutie, the Killers.”

A 2003 documentary, “Afropunk,” featured black punk fans and musicians talking about music, race and identity issues, and it has since turned into a movement, said James Spooner, its director. Thousands of black rock fans use Afropunk.com’s message boards to discuss bands, commiserate about their outsider status and share tips on how to maintain their frohawk hairstyles.

“They walk outside and they’re different,” Mr. Spooner said of the Web site’s regulars. “But they know they can connect with someone who’s feeling the same way on the Internet.”

On MySpace, the trailer for Mr. Spooner’s new film, “White Lies, Black Sheep,” about a young black man in the predominantly white indie-rock scene, has been played upward of 40,000 times.

Rock was created by black artists like Fats Domino, Chuck Berry and Little Richard, and Elvis Presley and other white artists eventually picked up the sound. In the ’60s, teenagers were just as likely to stack their turntables with records from both white and black artists — with perhaps a little bit of Motown, another musical thread of the time, thrown in, said Larry Starr, who wrote “American Popular Music: From Minstrelsy to MTV,” with Christopher Waterman. But that began changing in the late ’60s. By the time Jimi Hendrix became the ultimate symbol of counterculture cool, with his wild wardrobe and wilder guitar playing, the racial divisions were evident.

Paul Friedlander, the author of “Rock and Roll: A Social History,” noted that Hendrix became popular just as the black power movement emerged. Yet his trio included two white musicians and his audience was largely white. That made him anathema to many blacks.

“To the black community he was not playing wholly African-American music,” Mr. Friedlander said, even when Hendrix formed a new all-black band.

By the early ’70s, “you began to have this very strict color line,” Mr. Starr said. Music splintered into many different directions and, for the most part, blacks and whites went separate ways. Black musicians gravitated toward genres in which they were more likely to find acceptance and lucre, such as disco, R & B and hip-hop, which have also been popular among whites.

The next few decades saw several successful and influential black musicians who crossed genres or were distinctly rock, such as Prince, Living Colour and Lenny Kravitz, and rock melodies and lyrics have been liberally sampled by hip-hop artists. But rock is still largely a genre played by white rockers and celebrated by white audiences.

THE recent attention given several bands with black members — like Bloc Party, Lightspeed Champion, and the Dears — could signify change. “Return to Cookie Mountain,” the second album by the group TV on the Radio, a band in which four of the five members are black, was on the best-album lists of many critics in 2006. Around the country, other rock bands with black members are emerging.

On an evening in December, at Gooski’s, a crowded dive bar in Pittsburgh, Lamont Thomas, sweating through a red T-shirt that read “Black Rock,” played the drums behind the lead singer Chris Kulcsar, who was flinging his skinny frame around the stage, and the guitarist Buddy Akita. The bass player, Lawrence Caswell, dreadlocked and gregarious, introduced the band, a punk quartet from Cleveland with the name This Moment in Black History.

“The funny thing is, a lot of people assume from the name that we’re just white kids being ironic,” Mr. Thomas said.

This may be because their fans, like the ones who attended the show at Gooski’s, tend to be white, although there are usually one or two people of color, Mr. Caswell said.

Nev Brown, a photographer and writer from Brooklyn, said that at the indie rock shows that he has covered for his music blog, FiddleWhileYouBurn.com, he is almost always the only black person in the room. Some fans are curious about why he is at the show and try to talk to him about it.

“And then you get idiots, like people who think you’re a security guard,” he said.

Damon Locks, a Chicago-based publicist and singer in a hardcore band called the Eternals, said he is frequently mistaken for “one of the other three black guys” in the city’s rock-music scene. “We joke about it,” he said. “We’ve been thinking about getting together and starting a band called Black People.”

That kind of isolation is one of the reasons Mr. Spooner, the documentary director, regularly showcases black and mixed-race rock bands at clubs. For a band to participate, the lead singer must be black. This caused some friction early on, he said. “A lot of white people were offended that I was saying, ‘This is for us,’ ” Mr. Spooner said on a recent evening at the Canal Room, a club in downtown Manhattan, where he was the D.J. between sets for multiethnic bands like Graykid, Martin Luther and Earl Greyhound.

But, he added: “Almost every black artist I know wants to play in front of their people. This is bigger than just rocking out or whatever.”

Mr. Thomas, of This Moment in Black History, said that white fans sometimes want to know why he is not rapping. “It’s the stupidest question,” he said.

Just as often, it is African-Americans who are judgmental. “There’s an unfortunate tendency for some black people to think if you listen to rock music or want to play rock music, you’re an Uncle Tom,” Mr. Thomas said.

LaRonda Davis, president of the Black Rock Coalition, an organization co-founded by Vernon Reid of Living Colour in the mid-80s to advocate for black rock bands, said the resistance is rooted in group-think. “Black people were forced to create a community,” she said. “We’re so protective and proud of it, like, ‘We have to protect our own,’ and why should we embrace something that has always excluded us?”

Nelson George, author of “Buppies, B-Boys, Baps & Boho’s: Notes on Post-Soul Culture,” suggested that the rock ’n’ roll aesthetic had been a major deterrent. “Black kids do not want to go out with bummy clothes and dirty sneakers,” Mr. George said. “There is a psychological subtext to that, about being in a culture where you are not valued and so you have to value yourself.”

But lately, rock music, and its accouterments, are being considered more stylish. Mainstream hip-hop artists like Kelis wear Mohawks, Lil Jon and Lupe Fiasco rap about skateboarding, and “all of the Southern rap stars are into the ’80s punk look, wearing big studded belts and shredded jeans,” said Anoma Whittaker, the fashion director of Complex magazine. At the same time, the hip-hop industry’s demand for new samples has increased the number of rock songs appearing on hip-hop tracks: Jay-Z’s latest album features contributions from Chris Martin of Coldplay and R & B artist Rihanna’s current single samples the New Wave band Soft Cell.

“Hip-hop has lost a lot of its originality,” said Mr. Brown of Everything Must Go, the East Harlem skateboard shop. “This is the new thing.”


Last edited by Z on Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:15 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:24 am
Posts: 17359
Location: cogthrobber
Chocolate Genius albums are pretty cool and stuff.


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:22 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
In the Stax book I'm reading, Rob Bowman attributes the rather quick disappearance of black musicians and bands to civil rights and equal opportunity. Since there were few economic opportunities for black people, especially in the Jim Crow-era South, the teaching profession was at or near the top of the career ladder for black professionals, given segregated schools.

In Memphis alone, the six black high schools turned out dozens of musicians who helped define Amercan soul/R&B from the mid-1950s to the mid-1970s.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:26 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:59 pm
Posts: 24583
Location: On the gas and tappin' ass
The core statistic driving this observation would seem, to me, to be the fact that there aren't anywhere near as many black fans of indie rock as there are white ones. Some, yes. But nowhere near the number of pasty-faced white kids.

Thus...

It is not surprising or inexplicable that relatively few black people are sighted in indie bands, or at indie shows. It's sad maybe, but it makes sense. Their numbers probably accurately represent their consituancy amongst the fan base. No? Re-phrased, "Why aren't there even more white guys than there already are in Rap today?"

I ask because this reminds me of hearing something like "blacks are under-represented in (anything)" here in Wisconsin," but they only make up a few % of the total population. If only 3 out of every 100 people here is black, why is it unusual that only 5% (for example, made up, I'm guessing) of businesses are black-owned? Just running the numbers.

_________________
[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:54 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:37 pm
Posts: 8889
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
What about indie rap, where does that fall into this?
You'd think individuals such as Beans, Del the Funky Homosapien and Mars Black would be more identified with the indie scene than they are the rap scene.
Roger Lewis of The Good Life and frequently Neva Dinova is black, and being a black indie rock musician from Nebraska is quite the oddity.

_________________
Rock 'n Roll: The most brutal, ugly, desperate, vicious form of expression it has been my misfortune to hear.
Frank Sinatra


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:58 pm 
Offline
Hair Trigger of Doom

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:05 pm
Posts: 21295
Location: Subpoenaed in Texas
So, would TVOTR be the Grambling of the Indie Rock NCAA and Bloc Party Southern, or vice-versa?

_________________
bendandscoop.com


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:15 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 7979
FT Wrote:
So, would TVOTR be the Grambling of the Indie Rock NCAA and Bloc Party Southern, or vice-versa?

only one guy in bloc party is black.

also, i'm pretty sure bad brains deserves some mention here, as do the new york niggers. (and i think there was another band from detroit with the same name, but i don't know them at all.)


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:19 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:37 pm
Posts: 8889
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Z Wrote:
FT Wrote:
So, would TVOTR be the Grambling of the Indie Rock NCAA and Bloc Party Southern, or vice-versa?

only one guy in bloc party is black.

also, i'm pretty sure bad brains deserves some mention here, as do the new york niggers. (and i think there was another band from detroit with the same name, but i don't know them at all.)


I was just thinking of Bad Brains and Living Colour.

_________________
Rock 'n Roll: The most brutal, ugly, desperate, vicious form of expression it has been my misfortune to hear.
Frank Sinatra


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:28 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:47 am
Posts: 7038
Location: Exposing People To Magic...
The term "Blipsters" is fucking stupid.

can we now call chinese indie fans chipsters?

_________________
[url=http://www.superblackdeathwolf.blogspot.com]Dave is for the Children[/url]


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:29 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:59 pm
Posts: 24583
Location: On the gas and tappin' ass
F**k You Dave Wrote:
The term "Blipsters" is fucking stupid.

can we now call chinese indie fans chipsters?


bwah ha ha.

_________________
[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:33 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:11 pm
Posts: 9537
Location: North Cack
High Point WHAT WHAT

That guy is only a year or two younger than me...wonder where he went to hs.


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:33 pm 
Offline
"Weddings, Parties, Anything…"

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:50 pm
Posts: 853
Location: lawrencekansas
Promethium Wrote:
What about indie rap, where does that fall into this?
You'd think individuals such as Beans, Del the Funky Homosapien and Mars Black would be more identified with the indie scene than they are the rap scene.


whenever i go to indie rap shows, the overhwhelming majority of the audience is white hipsters. and that was just as true when i was going to shows in detroit as it is when i'm going to shows in lawrence. people like murs, slug, del, et. al. seem to be closer to the indie rock scene than any hip hop scene.

_________________
"who believe any mess they read up on a message board"
--mf doom


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:41 pm 
Offline
KILLFILED

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:14 pm
Posts: 15027
Location: There n' here.
Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
F**k You Dave Wrote:
The term "Blipsters" is fucking stupid.

can we now call chinese indie fans chipsters?


bwah ha ha.


Erik Estrada is not Chinese.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:44 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:11 pm
Posts: 9537
Location: North Cack
I think I would be a flipster then.


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:46 pm 
Offline
KILLFILED

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:14 pm
Posts: 15027
Location: There n' here.
tommy two bums Wrote:
I think I would be a flipster then.


That's... actually cool.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:58 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:47 am
Posts: 7038
Location: Exposing People To Magic...
white hipsters at a hip hop show=whipsters
jewish=heebster

_________________
[url=http://www.superblackdeathwolf.blogspot.com]Dave is for the Children[/url]


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:01 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 10198
jessisc pressler, that self hating philadelphian helped popularize the expression "sixth burroughs"

_________________
http://www.cdbaby.com/fishstick2


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:27 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:39 pm
Posts: 6960
Location: St. Louis
I like when I see the black chicks wearing all the new wave clothes.

_________________
"It's clear. I'm done for. There is no salvation for me now. And my head is devoid of any elevated thoughts." - Daniil Kharms


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:42 pm 
Offline
Post-Breakup Solo Project
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:40 am
Posts: 3473
not even a bad brains mention in there? it's the most obvious band to even mention when talking about black punk.



psh.

further reading? http://www.roctober.com/roctober/blackpunk1.html


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:46 pm 
Offline
Post-Breakup Solo Project
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:40 am
Posts: 3473
Promethium Wrote:
Z Wrote:
FT Wrote:
So, would TVOTR be the Grambling of the Indie Rock NCAA and Bloc Party Southern, or vice-versa?

only one guy in bloc party is black.

also, i'm pretty sure bad brains deserves some mention here, as do the new york niggers. (and i think there was another band from detroit with the same name, but i don't know them at all.)


I was just thinking of Bad Brains and Living Colour.


NY Niggers are awesome. I only could find two of their songs off of 7'' punk to download, do you have anything else? I think it was just a bunch of people in different cities going under the term "Niggers" and adding their given city name to the front. NY Niggers, Detroit Niggers, there may have been others. I could be completely wrong and I could be making this up but I think I read that when I downloaded the music off of 7" punk.

Anyways, if you have any of their stuff to offer i'd repay you in some fashion. I'm not sure if that's all that was ever recorded but if it was that'd be a shame.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:47 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:59 pm
Posts: 24583
Location: On the gas and tappin' ass
Cempolka Wrote:
not even a bad brains mention in there? it's the most obvious band to even mention when talking about black punk.



earlier, Z Wrote:
also, i'm pretty sure bad brains deserves some mention here, ...

_________________
[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:50 pm 
Offline
Post-Breakup Solo Project
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:40 am
Posts: 3473
Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Cempolka Wrote:
not even a bad brains mention in there? it's the most obvious band to even mention when talking about black punk.



earlier, Z Wrote:
also, i'm pretty sure bad brains deserves some mention here, ...


Yeah I just missed that. I didn't read everyones post before I posed that. Oh well.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:51 pm 
Offline
KILLFILED

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:14 pm
Posts: 15027
Location: There n' here.
Cap'n Squirrgle Wrote:
Cempolka Wrote:
not even a bad brains mention in there? it's the most obvious band to even mention when talking about black punk.



earlier, Z Wrote:
also, i'm pretty sure bad brains deserves some mention here, ...


So, you're the Junior Achievement attache to the Reading Comprehension Wing of the Sixth Column?

Hear, hear. Pip, pip.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:26 pm 
Offline
Alcoholic National Treasure

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:12 pm
Posts: 17155
Man I can't stand that broad. She's almost as bad as Sweeney.

Elvis Fu Wrote:
In the Stax book I'm reading, Rob Bowman attributes the rather quick disappearance of black musicians and bands to civil rights and equal opportunity


civil rights killed Al Jackson?

_________________
Are you kidding? I have no talents. Nothing. I was very well educated to be an idiot. And I was a very good student.


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:20 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:09 pm
Posts: 6424
Location: not in the gift shop dept.
Whole Wheat Bread

and

The Cocker Spaniels (who have a song called "The Only Black Guy At The Indie Rock Show")

also deserve a mention. Interesting topic, but what was the point of the article? That last line really irked me. Are more black kids getting into indie rock because they are breaking down the stereotypes of their culture, or just because indie rock is cooler now that it was 5 years ago?

_________________
Everyone's Invited: Sunday evenings, 7-9pm ET at www.westcottradio.org
New and old mixes: http://8tracks.com/neutralmarkhotel
Occasional random music reviews: http://www.jerseybeat.com/markhughson.html
My Scooby Doo/Henry Rollins mash up: http://retintheran.blogspot.com


Back to top
 Profile WWW 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Style by Midnight Phoenix & N.Design Studio
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.