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 Post subject: More Obama Fallout: Chris Buckley leaves the National Review
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:21 pm 
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after endorsing Obama.

"While I regret this development, I am not in mourning, for I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for," Buckley wrote.

"Eight years of 'conservative' government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case," he also wrot

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Awesome.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:31 pm 
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More quotes from Buckley

"This campaign has changed John McCain," Buckley wrote. "It has made him inauthentic. A once-first class temperament has become irascible and snarly; his positions change, and lack coherence; he makes unrealistic promises, such as balancing the federal budget 'by the end of my first term.' Who, really, believes that?"

"Then there was the self-dramatizing and feckless suspension of his campaign over the financial crisis," Buckley added. "His ninth-inning attack ads are mean-spirited and pointless. And finally, not to belabor it, there was the Palin nomination. What on earth can he have been thinking?"

"Obama has in him—I think, despite his sometimes airy-fairy 'We are the people we have been waiting for' silly rhetoric—the potential to be a good, perhaps even great leader. He is, it seems clear enough, what the historical moment seems to be calling for," Buckley wrote.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:33 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:33 pm 
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who did jeff buckley endorse

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:37 pm 
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Elvis Fu Wrote:
who did jeff buckley endorse


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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:42 pm 
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This is crazy. It's also crazy that in my office full of "politicos" none of them knew who Chris Buckley was.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:47 pm 
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Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
This is crazy. It's also crazy that in my office full of "politicos" none of them knew who Chris Buckley was.


Yes but they are also "politicos who eat out of toilets", no?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
This is crazy. It's also crazy that in my office full of "politicos" none of them knew who Chris Buckley was.


Yes but they are also "politicos who eat out of toilets", no?


I was speaking of staff. Most of whom have all their chromosomes.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:51 pm 
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Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
This is crazy. It's also crazy that in my office full of "politicos" none of them knew who Chris Buckley was.


i'm so glad i don't work with the people in your office

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:56 pm 
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toots and the midols Wrote:
Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
This is crazy. It's also crazy that in my office full of "politicos" none of them knew who Chris Buckley was.


i'm so glad i don't work with the people in your office


Cos I am sure the geniuses you work with know exactly who he is, and "take" The National Review each week?

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:24 pm 
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Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
toots and the midols Wrote:
Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
This is crazy. It's also crazy that in my office full of "politicos" none of them knew who Chris Buckley was.


i'm so glad i don't work with the people in your office


Cos I am sure the geniuses you work with know exactly who he is, and "take" The National Review each week?
some of my office know him as a fiction writer. I doubt that any know that he wrote a column in NR.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:48 am 
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I don't know much about christopher buckley's political views other than what you might assume from his last name. I've read a good deal of his writing but its been his novels or humorist columns for forbes fyi and others.

I get how anybody might abandon McCain or the Republican party in general these days. And I get how a liberal Republican might decide to vote for Obama but I don't really get how a self declared small government, fiscal conservative republican would vote for Obama. Yeah, don't vote for McCain but why Obama? Republicans have been acting like socialists enough without having to try to interpret what conservatives voting for Obama means.

I was reading a CBS poll today that said 51% expected McCain to increase their taxes compared to 46% who expected Obama to raise their taxes. That's how awful McCain's compaign has been. He absolutely deserves to lose.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:12 am 
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Kingfish Wrote:
Elvis Fu Wrote:
who did jeff buckley endorse


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too soon


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:19 am 
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Prowess Wrote:
Kingfish Wrote:
Elvis Fu Wrote:
who did jeff buckley endorse


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too soon


Though I sort of chuckled, I also thought 'ouch"...

You guys should see the notes one of my Facebook friends keeps publishing and then tagging me in... Notes with titles like "Why Other Countries Say Obama Is A Muslin" and "McCain has always been ahead in the polls: see why here.". I actually haven't read most of them, because this girl feels the need to post them in all-caps, so not only is she spouting BS but she's screaming it at me as well.... Apparently I'm an intolerant person because I just won't put up with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:46 am 
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billy g Wrote:
but I don't really get how a self declared small government, fiscal conservative republican would vote for Obama. Yeah, don't vote for McCain but why Obama?


Totally agree with you here. I don't personally know many republicans who are choosing Obama over McCain but the "either/or" or "lesser of two evils" mindset is silly if it means voting for someone you don't agree with just to not vote for the other guy.

I actually agree with what Buckley says here:

Quote:
"Obama has in him—I think, despite his sometimes airy-fairy 'We are the people we have been waiting for' silly rhetoric—the potential to be a good, perhaps even great leader. He is, it seems clear enough, what the historical moment seems to be calling for,"


...but as a fiscal conservative I can't vote for Obama, even though I like his persona, etc. I can't vote for McCain either, so it's either don't vote in the presidential race or choose a third party candidate.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:55 am 
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andyfest Wrote:
billy g Wrote:
but I don't really get how a self declared small government, fiscal conservative republican would vote for Obama. Yeah, don't vote for McCain but why Obama?


Totally agree with you here. I don't personally know many republicans who are choosing Obama over McCain but the "either/or" or "lesser of two evils" mindset is silly if it means voting for someone you don't agree with just to not vote for the other guy.

I actually agree with what Buckley says here:

Quote:
"Obama has in him—I think, despite his sometimes airy-fairy 'We are the people we have been waiting for' silly rhetoric—the potential to be a good, perhaps even great leader. He is, it seems clear enough, what the historical moment seems to be calling for,"



...but as a fiscal conservative I can't vote for Obama, even though I like his persona, etc. I can't vote for McCain either, so it's either don't vote in the presidential race or choose a third party candidate.


I sort of agreed with Christopher Hitchens endorsement of Obama in that he said he's learned by experience in life that's it not about the issues but rather the person. From that perspective, toss in the pragmatic belief that voting 3rd person is futile, and then you have a formula for a conservative voting Barry.

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I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:43 am 
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I hate the term "fiscal conservative".


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:56 am 
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billy g Wrote:
Yeah, don't vote for McCain but why Obama? Republicans have been acting like socialists enough without having to try to interpret what conservatives voting for Obama means.


Absolutely nothing, nothing about the last 8 years has been "socialist." Republicans have been corrupt, fascist (Patriot act, torture and other violations of the constitution), Neo-liberal globalist market policies, tax breaks for the rich, profligate spending, inept governance, strict constructionist judges.... absolutley nothing about them have been socialist. This is sloppy thinking and partisan essentialism that is a core problem in American political discourse.... not worthy of you. The distribution of wealth in the country has moved rapidly to the rich and privileged since the early 80's, and that movement has exponentially increased in speed since 2000.

There has been a strong resistance to Bush III by conservatives and related move to Obama for more than a year... from my millionaire brother to Andrew Sullivan to Andrew Bacevich

Quote:
Andrew J. Bacevich's pro-Obama piece, published in March in The American Conservative, is the "seminal Obamacon manifesto."

In that piece, Bacevich argues that conservative revival depends on a US withdrawal from Iraq, which Obama supports -- and Republican John McCain vehemently opposes.

"Barack Obama is no conservative," Bacevich starts his article. "Yet if he wins the Democratic nomination, come November principled conservatives may well find themselves voting for the senator from Illinois. Given the alternatives -- and the state of the conservative movement -- they could do worse.

"The essential point is this: conservatives intent on voting in November for a candidate who shares their views might as well plan on spending Election Day at home," Bacevich continues. "The Republican Party of Bush, Cheney, and McCain no longer accommodates such a candidate.

"So why consider Obama? For one reason only: because this liberal Democrat has promised to end the U.S. combat role in Iraq. Contained within that promise, if fulfilled, lies some modest prospect of a conservative revival.

"For conservatives, Obama represents a sliver of hope. McCain represents none at all. The choice turns out to be an easy one," Bacevich concludes.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
toots and the midols Wrote:
Sen. Clarence BeeksLooGAR Wrote:
This is crazy. It's also crazy that in my office full of "politicos" none of them knew who Chris Buckley was.


i'm so glad i don't work with the people in your office


Cos I am sure the geniuses you work with know exactly who he is, and "take" The National Review each week?


to be honest, at least a few of them are aware of the buckley family and the implications of the recent news

but i was really commenting on your own consistent observations of the people you work with...which seem to be on the negative side

unless i'm fusing your posts in my mind with other boarders, which could also be the case

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Last edited by toots on Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:02 pm 
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TinyE Wrote:
"Why Other Countries Say Obama Is A Muslin"


Ecru in color, a tight weave, a good hand... being cut and hemmed now for drapes in the Oval office.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:03 pm 
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"When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

* Sinclair Lewis


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:48 pm 
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Kingfish Wrote:
More quotes from Buckley

"This campaign has changed John McCain," Buckley wrote. "It has made him inauthentic. A once-first class temperament has become irascible and snarly; his positions change, and lack coherence; he makes unrealistic promises, such as balancing the federal budget 'by the end of my first term.' Who, really, believes that?"

"Then there was the self-dramatizing and feckless suspension of his campaign over the financial crisis," Buckley added. "His ninth-inning attack ads are mean-spirited and pointless. And finally, not to belabor it, there was the Palin nomination. What on earth can he have been thinking?"


Everything I've read on McCain over the last ten years has told me this--it hardly seems like a change. Nonetheless, I support his general sentiment.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:05 pm 
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harry Wrote:
billy g Wrote:
Yeah, don't vote for McCain but why Obama? Republicans have been acting like socialists enough without having to try to interpret what conservatives voting for Obama means.


Absolutely nothing, nothing about the last 8 years has been "socialist." Republicans have been corrupt, fascist (Patriot act, torture and other violations of the constitution), Neo-liberal globalist market policies, tax breaks for the rich, profligate spending, inept governance, strict constructionist judges.... absolutley nothing about them have been socialist. This is sloppy thinking and partisan essentialism that is a core problem in American political discourse.... not worthy of you. The distribution of wealth in the country has moved rapidly to the rich and privileged since the early 80's, and that movement has exponentially increased in speed since 2000.


Harry, I wasn't talking so much about the last 8 years as the last month with the Treasury picking and choosing which banks will survive and forcing banks to take equity investments from the government whether they like it or not and in many cases whether they need it or not. And while we are at it, the goverment is going to set limits on executive compensation and have to approve any dividends. You can't see why I would argue that is a socialist policy?

I think the signals we send to the political parties by our vote are in the long term more important than who we vote into office. Elected officials come and go, but the parties remain and what they stand for is important.
I guess what I'm saying is that I couldn't disagree more with Hitchens. Ideas are more important than individuals.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:21 pm 
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discostu Wrote:
"When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

* Sinclair Lewis


I am not sure there is a more ambiguous, pejorative term used today to describe anyone and any action in opposition to another's belief than "fascism".


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