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 Post subject: Another article on Pitchforkmedia (LA Times)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:58 pm 
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March 7, 2005
POP MUSIC
The zeitgeist guys
Pitchfork.com has its finger on the pulse of indie rock.

By David Pierson, Times Staff Writer

CHICAGO — Indie rock is a fickle thing. One moment the reconceptualization of 1970s guitar rock rules the underground zeitgeist. Then, without warning, the '80s are cool and you had better own an electronic keyboard.

Those who seek to chronicle this milieu need a finely tuned cultural barometer and the authority to speak convincingly to the kind of musical purists who swear by vinyl records and gag at the Grammys.

The music webzine Pitchforkmedia.com possesses both. Nine years after it started, Pitchfork has become an essential part of the iPod generation's lexicon, a must-read for music geeks seeking snarky critiques and timely news columns. It's a regular destination for concert promoters, radio programmers and record label executives advocating artists and bands with an aversion — intentional or not — to mainstream acceptance.

"They are one of the best front-end places for people who are interested in finding out what's about to happen next in music," said Celia Hirschman, a New York-based music consultant who also manages Bjork's record label, One Little Indian, in North America. "The reality is, the record business has gotten so small as an industry that people like Pitchfork perform an enormous service because of the credibility and traffic they generate."

Pitchfork speaks to the music fan who attends the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival and spends too much money at Amoeba Records in Hollywood. Buoyed by the increasing popularity of indie rock acts such as Franz Ferdinand, the Shins, Wilco and Bright Eyes, the site has carved out a following of about 1 million online visitors a month, a figure that rivals Rolling Stone magazine online.

In some circles, Pitchfork has become synonymous with indie rock and has higher visibility than competitors such as epiton and dustedmagazine.

Launched by its editor in chief, Ryan Schreiber, from his parents' suburban home outside Minneapolis, Pitchfork in 1999 established itself in Chicago and has since evolved into the online equivalent of a glossy magazine with daily features and columnists.

Generating buzz

One of the site's big coups was helping unveil the critically acclaimed band the Arcade Fire to an audience beyond its hometown of Montreal. Shortly after a glowing Pitchfork review came out in September, the Arcade Fire's label, Merge Records, was hounded by nearly two dozen publications asking for copies of the album.

"I said, 'Sure, but didn't I send you a copy two months ago?' " said Martin Hall, a promoter for Merge, which has seen its fortunes change after the band'sdebut album "Funeral" made critics' Top 10 lists from the Village Voice to the Los Angeles Times.

"They're obviously passionate music fans," Hall said of Pitchfork. "What started out as a forum has developed a lot of cachet and clout. In the last three to four years, they have really hit their stride and have become the first thing I read every morning. They've gotten to the point not only where record buyers rely on it for recommendations, but plenty of journalists read Pitchfork to get tips on new bands."

While Pitchfork has benefited by appearing painfully hip, its chief editor, Schreiber, seems anything but. The 29-year-old runs Pitchfork from a gray basement in Chicago's north side and looks nothing like the fashionistas from Echo Park, Brooklyn or his neighbors in Wicker Park — the kind of people you can picture dancing to the music he champions. Instead, he personifies the Second City's distaste for pretense: Schreiber's jeans appear several hundred dollars' short of vintage.

His Vans sneakers are contemporary, not the retro slip-ons that are de rigueur among the urban set. And his neat hair is specked with white along his sideburns.

'They deserve success'

With a look of boyish ambition (think Tom Cruise circa "Risky Business"), Schreiber is inclined to say earnest things like, "I think these bands we like and write about are so great that they deserve success and deserve to make a living off their art."

When you meet Schreiber and his two full-time staffers, managing editor Scott Plagenhoef and advertising director Chris Kaskie, it's a mild shock that they are amiable, considering the vitriol their site is capable of at times.

For instance, they've skewered experimental records such as Sonic Youth's "NYC Ghosts & Flowers," describing it as "an unfathomable album which will be heard in the squash courts and open mike nights of deepest hell."

With its rising profile, Pitchfork itself has become the target of indie backlash on Internet chat forums and even from people at established record labels who questioned how much recognition Pitchfork deserved for discovering some bands.

"I don't mean to imply they jump on any bandwagon; I give them credit for their success," said Chris Jacobs, marketing director for Sub Pop, an institutional indie rock label from Seattle best known for releasing Nirvana.

"I just don't like the notion that Pitchfork staff are as important as the bands. The extent to which they can take credit for the Arcade Fire ... is probably overstated. The credit has to go to the bands."

Sub Pop staffers even went so far as to spoof Pitchfork with a mock webpage that suggested the men of Pitchfork were trend junkies and had trouble wooing the ladies.

Ears everywhere

Turns out Schreiber is married. As for the reviewing, Schreiber leaves most of that these days to 60 freelance staffers spread throughout the country, mining small clubs, listening to releases from mom-and-pop record companies and seeking word-of-mouth buzz. The site features five new reviews of mostly never-before-heard-of bands five days a week. A news department keeps up on things like which group's drug-addicted guitarist has been dumped for burglarizing his bandmates' apartment.

"I call Ryan the Walter Winchell of indie rock," said Cory Brown, the owner of Absolutely Kosher Records in Berkeley and the person who introduced Schreiber to the Arcade Fire.

The operation today is a distant cry from when Schreiber started Pitchfork out of his childhood bedroom in 1996. The site's name is a reference to a moment in one of Schreiber's favorite movies, "Scarface," when Al Pacino's character reveals a pitchfork tattoo — the sign of an assassin, though Schreiber says he has no designs of assassinating anyone, even metaphorically.

Growing up listening to everything from Olivia Newton-John to the Cure, Schreiber said he dreamed up Pitchfork shortly after discovering the Internet. Its early success was often driven by the fact that it was the only destination online where fans could read about bands that sometimes had fan followings no larger than a junior high school classroom. Today, almost any obscure band or record label maintains a website.

Pitchfork supports its site with advertising, with indie record companies such as Matador, Epitaph, Interscope and even the skeptics at Sub Pop paying for space on the site's home page.

Despite scathing critiques, the Pitchfork staff knows of no label that has pulled advertising over a review. Schreiber would not disclose financial details but said Pitchfork was doing well enough to soon pay some of its reviewers more than the $40 per review they get now.

As the site's recognition grows, there are signs that Pitchfork's musical tastes have expanded. Reviewers have come to embrace commercial hip-hop, essentially giving the soundtrack of modern night-clubbing the kind of artistic scrutiny often reserved for those who strum acoustic guitars.

"I used to fear getting older," Schreiber said. "The key is to be open minded about music. I didn't like hip-hop and electronica for a long time. But the problem with a lot of critics is they stop loving music and start loving the nostalgia of music they used to love."

Copyright LA Times


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:07 pm 
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I like the use of the word "snarky."

Oh and Pitchfork gave that piece of shit The Massacre a 7/10.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:08 pm 
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The only thing worse than pitchfork is an article talking about how great pitchfork is.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:09 pm 
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fancypants Wrote:
The only thing worse than pitchfork is an article talking about how great pitchfork is.


this must be what was referred to as "pitchfork backlash".

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:11 pm 
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I give this thread a 4/10 on the Pitchfork scale.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:14 pm 
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paladisiac Wrote:
fancypants Wrote:
The only thing worse than pitchfork is an article talking about how great pitchfork is.


this must be what was referred to as "pitchfork backlash".


yeah, i don't understand how someone could care either way about pitchfork to talk crap about it. lots of the reviews are beyond readable, but whatever. it's a pretty nice site and i wish them well.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:29 pm 
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jewels santana Wrote:
paladisiac Wrote:
fancypants Wrote:
The only thing worse than pitchfork is an article talking about how great pitchfork is.


this must be what was referred to as "pitchfork backlash".


yeah, i don't understand how someone could care either way about pitchfork to talk crap about it. lots of the reviews are beyond readable, but whatever. it's a pretty nice site and i wish them well.


Ditto - I wish them the best, and still check it every morning at work...

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 Post subject: Re: Another article on Pitchforkmedia (LA Times)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:31 pm 
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BeeOK Wrote:
Despite scathing critiques, the Pitchfork staff knows of no label that has pulled advertising over a review. Schreiber would not disclose financial details...


But the whole world knows since their security fiasco...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:55 pm 
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What's the problem with criticizing Pitchfork? They reserve the right to be critical, and so do I. I care one way or the other because I'm tired of the self-fulfilling concept that PF shapes the views of faceless indie retards. Their content is terribly inconsistent and in desperate need of editing, their venom arbitrary, and their attitude juvenile. They found a flock that wanted leading, yay for them, but that doesn't mean they deserve any respect as a publication.


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 Post subject: Re: Another article on Pitchforkmedia (LA Times)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:59 pm 
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timmyjoe42 Wrote:
BeeOK Wrote:
Despite scathing critiques, the Pitchfork staff knows of no label that has pulled advertising over a review. Schreiber would not disclose financial details...


But the whole world knows since their security fiasco...


And we know his Grandmama's home phone and birthday.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:06 pm 
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HaqDiesel Wrote:
What's the problem with criticizing Pitchfork? They reserve the right to be critical, and so do I. I care one way or the other because I'm tired of the self-fulfilling concept that PF shapes the views of faceless indie retards. Their content is terribly inconsistent and in desperate need of editing, their venom arbitrary, and their attitude juvenile. They found a flock that wanted leading, yay for them, but that doesn't mean they deserve any respect as a publication.

This has got to appear directly under the masthead of Haqzine.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:09 pm 
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oof, never thought i'd read a puff piece about pitchfork. did ryan hire a publicist?

KPH


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:09 pm 
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I'm still pissed because I bought into their hype of that Castanets album.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:17 pm 
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HaqDiesel Wrote:
What's the problem with criticizing Pitchfork? They reserve the right to be critical, and so do I. I care one way or the other because I'm tired of the self-fulfilling concept that PF shapes the views of faceless indie retards. Their content is terribly inconsistent and in desperate need of editing, their venom arbitrary, and their attitude juvenile. They found a flock that wanted leading, yay for them, but that doesn't mean they deserve any respect as a publication.


Have you ever read a newspaper before? The first thing you need to know is that they are to write as if you, the reader, are stupid, and COMPLETELY unaware of the subject. That is why you get articles like this. There's nothing wrong with being critical, but Haterade is a different beverage Haqy-baby. And that's what you appear to be serving.

I may not agree with them, or Bill Simmons, but I do respect the fact that they are able to get P-A-I-D for the shit we waste our time Obnering about. I think most anyone who is anti needs to take that look into their heart and see if its that they hate Pitchfork, or are jealousy, cos that's an ugly emotion.

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I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:24 pm 
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There's a difference between writing that assumes you're stupid and writing that makes you stupid, Senator. I'll just say that judging by your post, you seem a loyal PF reader.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:31 pm 
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Sen. P.O.D.Y. LooGAR Wrote:
I do respect the fact that they are able to get P-A-I-D for the shit we waste our time Obnering about. I think most anyone who is anti needs to take that look into their heart and see if its that they hate Pitchfork, or are jealousy, cos that's an ugly emotion.

Jealousy? Why would anybody be jealous over getting paid peanuts to write about indie rock? I can think of very few things more dismal than spending a working life attempting to make the likes of the Shins seem interesting.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:31 pm 
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I check it out, to be sure. I haven't read an article or a review in some time. I just find all the backlash around here pretty amusing, considering most of us would kill to be in Ryan's position.

Nice parlat of making me defend whether I read or don't read Pitchfork, instead of saying anything useful. And again, newspaper writing'll make you stupid. I almost got thrown out of journalism school for saying this to most of teachers, and the Dean in a public setting.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:34 pm 
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i check in often. there are a couple reviewers who i can gauge the quality of an album by. mostly i just read reviews of what i've heard about as an added opinion and check the news.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:35 pm 
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Radcliffe Wrote:
Sen. P.O.D.Y. LooGAR Wrote:
I do respect the fact that they are able to get P-A-I-D for the shit we waste our time Obnering about. I think most anyone who is anti needs to take that look into their heart and see if its that they hate Pitchfork, or are jealousy, cos that's an ugly emotion.

Jealousy? Why would anybody be jealous over getting paid peanuts to write about indie rock? I can think of very few things more dismal than spending a working life attempting to make the likes of the Shins seem interesting.


Au contraire, BR, I think Ryan Schreiber gets loot. As does Simmons. He was able to parlay his halfwit persona into writing for Kimmel. While it ain't my dream job, neither is working the Mobile Mayor's race and I think we know who gets paid more. I said I respect them for their ability to get PAID. And I do.
And everyone who is up in arms about pitchfork secretly thinks that they could do it better (as I not so secretly think about simmons) but if it were true, it'd be happening.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:35 pm 
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HaqDiesel Wrote:
There's a difference between writing that assumes you're stupid and writing that makes you stupid, Senator. I'll just say that judging by your post, you seem a loyal PF reader.


Not to pile on Haq, but I'm sure that you yourself read P-fork; And the Sen. has one good point that I believe I brought up a couple weeks ago: If you any damn sense, you would turn this fucking website into a business like Ryan was smart enough to do with his damn thing.

I'm sorry guys that I am the eternal capitalist here, but money is money.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:39 pm 
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who cares

(this applies to every post in this thread)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:42 pm 
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Sen. P.O.D.Y. LooGAR Wrote:
I think Ryan Schreiber gets loot. As does Simmons. He was able to parlay his halfwit persona into writing for Kimmel.

Gotta disagree. Schreiber's ad rates (and more) were made public not too long ago, and the Pitchfork site doesn't pull in much at all. Unless he gets money from other sources, he'll be lucky to net much more than $30K.

I don't know who Simmons is, but find it doubtful that someone's reckid reviews got them a gig as a comedy writer. Pitchfork was probably a secondary gig while he pursued his real work.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:42 pm 
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Sen. P.O.D.Y. LooGAR Wrote:
Nice parlat of making me defend whether I read or don't read Pitchfork, instead of saying anything useful.


Remember how you said nothing to negate my actual criticisms of PF and immediately resorted to ad hominem? I do.

And Yail: I never read PF. I've tried, but I just can't.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:51 pm 
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HaqDiesel Wrote:
Sen. P.O.D.Y. LooGAR Wrote:
Nice parlay of making me defend whether I read or don't read Pitchfork, instead of saying anything useful.


Remember how you said nothing to negate my actual criticisms of PF and immediately resorted to ad hominem? I do.


What was implied by my "I MAY NOT AGREE WITH THEM" was that I understand that they are criticizable. You jumped on the article, and I wanted to make sure, as someone with a background in journalism, that you knew why these articles always suck.

And then I defended Ryan and his money making ability, which is why I respect dude, even if I don't like him.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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