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 Post subject: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Big in Australia
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So, I have been having this back and forth with my friend David, who plays drums with me, about protest songs.
A lot of these make me wince; cringe, even, with their blatant in-your-face messages. Even songs that I love like "Mercy Mercy Me (The Ecology)" have lines that are only saved by the amazing melody and Marvin's outstanding vocal. ("Fish full of mercury... for the children").

I prefer that if you are going to send a message, that the lyrics paint a picture that demonstrate your point instead of banging me over the head with it.

Message/protest songs that DO work for me:
"Strange Fruit" by Billie Holiday

"Devil's Right Hand" by Steve Earle


What are your feelings? Do you mind the whole hippie-dippie we gotta save the Earth crap, or do you prefer to be told a story that illustrates a point of view?

It's been an interesting discussion with Dave so far, and I thought that it might be fun to continue it over here with you smart, opinionated people.

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:50 pm 
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Katey Sagal's Version also pays hommage. Great Guitar. Very dramatic

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Last edited by mcloren on Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:54 am 
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I love Steve Earle's "Christmas In Washington"

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I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:43 am 
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earle is such a great songwriter with such a passionate voice that he is able to overcome the restrictions of a genre that would cripple lesser artists.


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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:32 am 
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I guess with love songs you can get away with more because we've all felt something cliche and maudlin at some point, we've all been young and kind of miss feeling cliche and maudlin. With protest songs there are facts involved and we might wish it was as simple as the song makes it, but unfortunately it's not. There is not harm in the song not getting the girl back, it's sort of depressing that the song isn't going to save the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:32 am 
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anyway, I love this song

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:04 am 
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Some of my favorites, and I also love the one Jewels posted. I like political music, but if it's empty sloganeering that's not so good. I also feel like rap music does a much better job of talking about fucked up political situations and things in our society than it gets credit for.

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:42 am 
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Big in Australia
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jewels santana Wrote:
I guess with love songs you can get away with more because we've all felt something cliche and maudlin at some point, we've all been young and kind of miss feeling cliche and maudlin. With protest songs there are facts involved and we might wish it was as simple as the song makes it, but unfortunately it's not. There is not harm in the song not getting the girl back, it's sort of depressing that the song isn't going to save the world.

That's a good point. And it's probably a part of the reason that, even when I agree with the singer's point of view, I feel like they're talking down to me or being patronizing when they say stuff like "Save the children" or some other such easily mocked thing. It oversimplifies and often diminishes what would be an important point. Makes it easier to ignore.
Here's another one that illustrates my point, from the good side. Maybe one of the very best.

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Paul Caporino of M.O.T.O. Wrote:
I've recently noticed that all the unfortunate events in the lives of blues singers all seem to rhyme... I think all these tragedies could be avoided with a good rhyming dictionary.


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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Yeah, I am not sure that a "message" song is inherently worse than any other genre; authenticity of persona and voice, intensity of performance, musical setting... can overcome obvious, sappy, cringe-making lyrics. That's true whether political or pussy-whipped polemic. From both ends of the melanin spectrum:




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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:04 pm 
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Bottom line, the song has to be good and if it is, it will work in any era and in any style.

Case in point, I took a Valentine's weekend trip to New York back in February of 2003.

We had dinner reservations, Broadway show tix, and tix for Sleater Kinney at the Roseland Ballroom with Black Keys and Blonde Redhead opening.

We had zero knowledge that the NYC protest of the the lead up to the war in Iraq was going to be happening that same weekend and we got to experience it first hand.

Later that night when Sleater Kinney came out for their encore, they thanked everyone who braved the cold and protested that day and dedicated the next song to them. They then proceeded to play a screaming, blistering version of "Fortunate Son". A song over 30 years old at the time but felt as relevant and present as anything they played all night. One of the coolest moments I've experienced of having pop and politics come together and create something.........more. Even played a small role in helping shape my personal political views at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Big in Australia
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Rick Derris Wrote:
Bottom line, the song has to be good and if it is, it will work in any era and in any style.

Case in point, I took a Valentine's weekend trip to New York back in February of 2003.

We had dinner reservations, Broadway show tix, and tix for Sleater Kinney at the Roseland Ballroom with Black Keys and Blonde Redhead opening.

We had zero knowledge that the NYC protest of the the lead up to the war in Iraq was going to be happening that same weekend and we got to experience it first hand.

Later that night when Sleater Kinney came out for their encore, they thanked everyone who braved the cold and protested that day and dedicated the next song to them. They then proceeded to play a screaming, blistering version of "Fortunate Son". A song over 30 years old at the time but felt as relevant and present as anything they played all night. One of the coolest moments I've experienced of having pop and politics come together and create something.........more. Even played a small role in helping shape my personal political views at the time.


"Fortunate Son"
A song that kinda straddles that show/tell line, I think. It's a bit more subtle than just telling folks what to think, as Fogerty is talking about other folks who he is NOT, showing their hypocrisy instead of telling you "These people are hypocrites."
I think that makes it a lyric that I can tolerate and enjoy more than someone just telling me what is wrong.
It's the observational aspect that I like.

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Paul Caporino of M.O.T.O. Wrote:
I've recently noticed that all the unfortunate events in the lives of blues singers all seem to rhyme... I think all these tragedies could be avoided with a good rhyming dictionary.


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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
One of the coolest moments I've experienced of having pop and politics come together and create something.........more. Even played a small role in helping shape my personal political views at the time.


The transcendent moment. Chasing that buzz for a lifetime.

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Rick Derris Wrote:
Bottom line, the song has to be good and if it is, it will work in any era and in any style.

Case in point, I took a Valentine's weekend trip to New York back in February of 2003.

We had dinner reservations, Broadway show tix, and tix for Sleater Kinney at the Roseland Ballroom with Black Keys and Blonde Redhead opening.

We had zero knowledge that the NYC protest of the the lead up to the war in Iraq was going to be happening that same weekend and we got to experience it first hand.

Later that night when Sleater Kinney came out for their encore, they thanked everyone who braved the cold and protested that day and dedicated the next song to them. They then proceeded to play a screaming, blistering version of "Fortunate Son". A song over 30 years old at the time but felt as relevant and present as anything they played all night. One of the coolest moments I've experienced of having pop and politics come together and create something.........more. Even played a small role in helping shape my personal political views at the time.


And that protest is memorialized in Bright Eyes' "Old Soul Song"

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:04 pm 
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fuck that i wont do what they told me

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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:21 am 
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Some of my favorites, and I also love the one Jewels posted. I like political music, but if it's empty sloganeering that's not so good. I also feel like rap music does a much better job of talking about fucked up political situations and things in our society than it gets credit for.









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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:42 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:59 am 
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Big in Australia
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That Sam Cooke song is incredible. There are always exceptions and that is one of them for me. But then, the lyrics are't as explicit (though they may be obvious) as to what he is singing about.
Fucking great song.

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Paul Caporino of M.O.T.O. Wrote:
I've recently noticed that all the unfortunate events in the lives of blues singers all seem to rhyme... I think all these tragedies could be avoided with a good rhyming dictionary.


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 Post subject: Re: Message/Protest songs -- an ongoing dialogue
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Bill Fox - My Baby Crying is one of my modern favorites. I suppose it's broadness doesn't immediately put a lump in your heart like other songs, but if the listener imagines their own "baby," in whatever form it may be, it the song takes on a much heavier significance.

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