No disrespect to you, but this is tired. No one's opinion one either side is going to change.

Or, he could have just put out a giant sign saying.... I'm a prick! Printing would have been cheaper.

bad photoshop

it's true that the argument is currently pretty tired, certainly in the facebook realm. But opinions change all the time. The NRA is considerably more conservative (or libertarian I suppose) than they were a two decades ago. Saint Ronald changed his opinion after getting shot. The % of gun owners is getting lower every year, gun nuts are getting nuttier every year.

I'm tired of seeing cutsy jpgs on both sides, but this conversation isn't over.

Doesn't help that one side shuns reason.

Not sure what you mean by this. "Obama is still President?" again is pretty tired. Every gun owner vs. Every non-gun owner, gay marriage, abortion, immigration?

is this not the state of all things?

Yeah, looks that way to me to.

It it were real, a funny counterpoint from the neighbor would be:

Hey criminals!
Looking for guns to steal?
This guy has a bunch! -->

People I know who own guns aren't dumb enough to advertise that fact openly. But I'm sure I don't know a lot of the worlds dumber gun owners.

The whole... well, no one's opinion can ever be changed about everything...stance I is counterproductive to progress and rational discussion. If people can't look at issues and discuss rationally and logically and be open to change when the facts present themselves, we are fucked. That said, in many ways we may indeed be fucked. But that doesn't mean those fighting the fight for rational thought should just keep arguments to themselves so as not to upset the closed minded by making them think and justify their positions.

I will admit that was a hair-triggered overreactive statement. My position on the whole gun thing: I own a handgun that I only recently got (after both of my kids were at least 14 and knew gun safety and the rule of not to touch it) for emergency protection. My family owns various shotguns and rifles, as my sons love to hunt. I would do everything in my power to defend my right to own these. I am, however, completely against the idea that the typical, private citizen has any use for assault weapons. I would support a ban, across the board, on the AK's and AR's. No common sense to have these around at all.

everything in your power?

i guess i never understood the emotional attachment to guns.

for me, i might as well be defending my right to own a blender to the death.

BREAKING: Right to digest food quickly under attack, says pureed food lobby






well shit

It's not an emotional attachment at all. In one case it's practical (handgun), in the other case recreational (shotguns, rifles). I understand the implication of "everything in my power". Hyperbolic and a stretch, but I do feel strongly about it. I can always count on someone to pick my words apart, though.

First, I don’t think a hand gun is actually practical for home defense. I think that’s why people buy them, just like people buy treadmills to “get in shape.”
Odds either will be used for its alleged purpose: 1 in 1,000,000,000,000.
Odds either will be used for something unintended (in the case of a gun, either an accidental shooting or it will be stolen and used for crime … in the case of the treadmill the odds that it will become the world’s largest paperweight and be resold ten years later at a garage sale for $14): 1 in a muchmuch smaller number.
And in the meantime, the treadmill sits there losing value and taking up a giant fuckload space while the gun sits there substantially increasing the odds that someone gets shot accidentally in your house. You’re a great guy, Mike, I mean no disrespect or offense. I grew up with guns, both in my dad’s house and some friends’ houses, and I’m not guessing what that’s like. I target shot every weekend as a kid.
I guess if I thought I was getting something out of it that was SO TOTALLY WORTH IT, I would take those odds, but the idea that a burgler’s coming in while you’re home (vast majority don’t), and that you’ll be able to get to the gun and do something about it that wouldn’t have been an option without a gun… those are shitty odds. And for what? Hell my dad shot a 32 round through the garage wall into the bathroom while cleaning a gun, and he’s fucking CAREFUL. All the downsides are real and enormously destructive, and all the positives are these nebulous feely ideas about “defending the home” and keeping the british out.

Its all about the pseudo-pornographic fantasy of killing a brown man.

15/16

(maybe more considering what day it is and all)

Not at all. Matter of fact, around here there's a much better chance of it being a two-toothed, white trash meth head.

Squirrg, I really understand your point. My brother was a probation/parole officer and is going to help me out. I never brought one into the house, as I said above, until my children were old enough to know to leave it where it is. You make a convincing argument (it was a gift from my mom). See: Christmas thread.

I don't think that was aimed at you, Mike. More like the average "From My Cold Dead Hands" dunce.

I actually have no desire to own a handgun - I think the effect of a racking shotgun and the attendant blast will suffice for home protection.

I think there is some fantasy aspect to it that may or may not include killing a black guy. I think often it isn't necessarily racist, just a fantasy about self-sufficiency and saving the world with a gun that 99% of the time has no basis in reality. Like the people who think they are going to defend against the US military taking over the country... 'cause your guns are gonna be really super effective against tanks and drone strikes, not to mention the air force, highly trained marines and a whole host of shit that would steamroll any bunch of survivalists in the woods, even with automatic weapons. Similarly, while I can't say I don't in some ways get the rationale for self-protection; I think the numbers show very little support arming yourself as a successful strategy. And, if anyone thinks they could stop the mass killings, generally launched with long-term planning, heavy arms and a gigantic element of surprise if they walked around with a pistol in their pocket; they are truly delusional.

I'd like to see any evidence of guns actually making people safer outside of hunches and appeals to common sense. But, I see precious little of that coming from the pro gun side of the debate.

nobody, have you seen the documentary Rambo: First Blood Part II , that guy kicked a whole lot of ass with nothing but some guns and a cool knife. So you might want to reconsider.

Excellent point.

This stuff just writes itself:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... n_day.html

It most definitely wasn't.

Yeah.


The people staying in our guest room right now are from Australia, and we were talking about this shit last night. The guy was telling me that per-capita gun ownership is almost as high there as it is in the US, but that gun deaths are more like 1% of ours. He said most of those guns are out in the ranches and farms, not in the cities. Donno if that's completely true but it's interesting. Also they had a mass-shooting event in the early 90's, and afterward they held an event for people to voluntarily turn in guns (no questions asked) and got some astronomically high number of them. They're only just now getting ack up to the level of guns they had back then before the shooting.