Sorry, but more politics

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:16 pm

billy g Wrote:

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

[
Thanks, Ms. Rand, we needed that. Tell that shit to my grandmother mutherfucker and get ready to knuckle the fuck up.

If it were possible that everyone could be as smart and wonderful and long term planning as you, we wouldn't need it...

There's a reason that it is the best and most politically popular government program in history, but i suppose you think that 70 year olds SHOULD work at Wal Mart.

(sorry, Billy, I love ya, but yer wrong)

Obviously we couldn't just yank the rug out from under people who have been paying in for all their lives so your grandmother is irrelevant.

But I think you've got a confused notion of political popularity. Just because people yell and scream that they don't want their benefits cut doesn't mean that they are happy that they handed over responsibility for their retirement savings to the government in the first place.

I'm not against the disability portion of the program and I'm not against the basic concept of welfare/domestic assistance programs for those in need regardless of age.

The core of the Social Security program is offensive to me though. Where do you draw the line. Why should I be trusted to manage any of my money. Would the world be a better place if I had no money of my own, just whatever the government decided I needed. Borg might think so but I'd hope the rest wouldn't.

Seriously, bro, no one is saying that you can't handle your own money, so that argument is irrelevant. It is a SAFETY NET, and should be there. Sorry, but taxes are the price you have to pay to live in a decent society. I don't like em any more than you do, but if you look at the good they do, it far outweighs the bad.

Also, all of this talk of "insolvency" and "I'm not going to get it anyway" is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy.

I do agree we need to deal with the problem, but it's politics, it ain't gonna happen unless something dire forces the process. This is not dire, it is almost wholly manufactured by the Pres. cos he holds the bully pulpit.

Thee Incident · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:20 pm

Dems say, "You're doing it wrong!"
Repubs say, "You might think it's wrong, but least we're doing something. Damn hippies."

The lesson: Pointing out the folly of others changes nothing if no action follows.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:22 pm

swiateck Wrote:

Dems say, "You're doing it wrong!"
Repubs say, "You might think it's wrong, but least we're doing something. Damn hippies."

And there is truth to that. You know the "Revolution" of 1994 wasn't built in a day and was based on some solid ideas that needed to be articulated at the time. the problem is that instead of trying to build a new coaltion, we are clinging to the dying remnants of the old one, and hoping for a "return to our rightful place on the throne"

I think we should rip it up and start over, and well, actually that's what i am starting to do.

Thee Incident · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:32 pm

your ideas intrigue me and I am interested in subscribing to your newsletter.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:33 pm

swiateck Wrote:

your ideas intrigue me and I am interested in subscribing to your newsletter.

When the time is right man. I remember talking about this before, and I seriously do think I am hooked in on something that is going to be huge, and have huge repercussions. I almost hate to think/talk so grandiosely, but we're about to buck hard on some folks, to be sure.

Elvis Fu · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:33 pm

Don't do it. It's spam.

Thee Incident · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:37 pm

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

swiateck Wrote:

your ideas intrigue me and I am interested in subscribing to your newsletter.

When the time is right man. I remember talking about this before, and I seriously do think I am hooked in on something that is going to be huge, and have huge repercussions. I almost hate to think/talk so grandiosely, but we're about to buck hard on some folks, to be sure.

THAT'S ALL CRAZY TALK!!! THIS KIND OF THINKING COULD DO US IN!!!
:wink:

If you need a media shock troop, holla at your boy.

Billzebub · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm **Posts:** 6459

Ooooh, can I be your Al Hunt?

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:47 pm

Billzebub Wrote:

Ooooh, can I be your Al Hunt?

More like Al Haig "I'm in control"

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

scottycash99 Wrote:

It makes sense in the same way that manditory free public education makes sense. without turning this into an arguement over the quality of public education, it is hard to argue that society is not better off with an educated populace.

I don't really support the idea of mandatory education either. Children would be better educated if the students that don't want to be there weren't there, and most of those that really don't want to be there and whose parents don't care won't really learn much anyway.

Cap'n Squirrgle · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:49 pm

Can I be Michael J Fox in Spin City? He's short, right?

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:51 pm

billy g Wrote:

scottycash99 Wrote:

It makes sense in the same way that manditory free public education makes sense. without turning this into an arguement over the quality of public education, it is hard to argue that society is not better off with an educated populace.

I don't really support the idea of mandatory education either. Children would be better educated if the students that don't want to be there weren't there, and most of those that really don't want to be there and whose parents don't care won't really learn much anyway.

yeah, so let the dumb fucks loose on the street?

i do agree that some kind of European style trade training woul dbe much better suited, but everyone whould have a base of knowledge.

I'm gonna mail you a dogeared copy of Atlas Shrugged if you keep this up Billy.

Billzebub · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm **Posts:** 6459

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

Billzebub Wrote:

Ooooh, can I be your Al Hunt?

More like Al Haig "I'm in control"

It's "in charge". Get it straight.

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

I'm not for the type of education where bureaucrats decide early who deserves higher education and who should be streamlined into industrial arts. But some people benefit from further education and others don't. I'm all for giving those who don't want to be there and would rather go a work study route with more specific job training as opposed a general education that choice.

Keeping those who don't want to be there in the classes only holds back those who do want to be there. Its all about freedom of choice. I don't need your atlas shrugged. I already have it.

Billzebub · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm **Posts:** 6459

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

I'm gonna mail you a dogeared copy of Atlas Shrugged if you keep this up Billy.

I suspect he's already got one.

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

Billzebub Wrote:

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

I'm gonna mail you a dogeared copy of Atlas Shrugged if you keep this up Billy.

I suspect he's already got one.

Yep along with her non-fiction work as well and of course

The Anti-Federalist Papers
Human Action by Ludwig Von Mises
The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
etc etc etc

np: V/A "Dakar Sound v. 5"

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:02 pm

billy g Wrote:

. I don't need your atlas shrugged. I already have it.

Well, color me SHOCKED :roll:

If you don't want "bureaucrats" making the call, than who should? Mom? Dad? I am sure I would be quite happy in their chosen profession for me, cos they know so much about my hopes and ambitions.

Sorry kids, government is part of your life, and oppressing you SO much that you get to spend most of your day arguing with dingbats on the internets and shopping for obscure Afro funk rekkids on vinyl.

Positively Orwellian 'tis. Big Silber is watching you, Billy.

Thee Incident · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:08 pm

I forget, is this contest being fought in a steel cage or under lumberjack rules?

Billzebub · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm **Posts:** 6459

billy g Wrote:

Billzebub Wrote:

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

I'm gonna mail you a dogeared copy of Atlas Shrugged if you keep this up Billy.

I suspect he's already got one.

Yep along with her non-fiction work as well and of course

The Anti-Federalist Papers
Human Action by Ludwig Von Mises
The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
etc etc etc

np: V/A "Dakar Sound v. 5"

Did you ever read Peikoff's "Ominous Parallels"?

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:10 pm

swiateck Wrote:

I forget, is this contest being fought in a steel cage or under lumberjack rules?

I prefer a "Pin Anywhere in the Building" match

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

billy g Wrote:

. I don't need your atlas shrugged. I already have it.

If you don't want "bureaucrats" making the call, than who should? Mom? Dad? I am sure I would be quite happy in their chosen profession for me, cos they know so much about my hopes and ambitions.

You make the call yourself in my world.

Yes, some government is necessary but I'd draw the line differently than most of you and eternal vigilence is the price of liberty. Anyways, I'm done with this debate.

np: Dakar sound

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:14 pm

billy g Wrote:

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

billy g Wrote:

. I don't need your atlas shrugged. I already have it.

If you don't want "bureaucrats" making the call, than who should? Mom? Dad? I am sure I would be quite happy in their chosen profession for me, cos they know so much about my hopes and ambitions.

You make the call yourself in my world.

Yes, some government is necessary but I'd draw the line differently than most of you and eternal vigilence is the price of liberty. Anyways, I'm done with this debate.

np: Dakar sound

Run and hide then, brother.

I am sure that at 16 you were well equipped to make such a decision for yourself.

Eternal vigilance is fine, but your argument is off base. With reality and with what could ever be a good reality.

AuH20 in 2008.

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

Billzebub Wrote:

Did you ever read Peikoff's "Ominous Parallels"?

No, I never read any of his or her other close associate's works. I used to spend almost as large a percentage of my income on libertarian oriented books as I know do on music. I still have tons I never got around to reading and I seriously doubt I ever will because I care much less about politics today than I did ten years ago.

billy g · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:41 pm **Posts:** 9020

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

I am sure that at 16 you were well equipped to make such a decision for yourself.

Eternal vigilance is fine, but your argument is off base. With reality and with what could ever be a good reality.

AuH20 in 2008.

In what world do you have to choice your vocation for life at age 16? I didn't end up in my current line of work until I was in my 30's. I was certainly capable of deciding whether I wanted to continue my liberal arts oriented education or not though.

Senator LooGAR · **Posted:** Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:28 pm

billy g Wrote:

Senator Marmie LooGAR Wrote:

I am sure that at 16 you were well equipped to make such a decision for yourself.

Eternal vigilance is fine, but your argument is off base. With reality and with what could ever be a good reality.

AuH20 in 2008.

In what world do you have to choice your vocation for life at age 16? I didn't end up in my current line of work until I was in my 30's. I was certainly capable of deciding whether I wanted to continue my liberal arts oriented education or not though.

Uh, so now we're talking about letting people just do not shit until their in their thirties?

I would argue that you were not capable of making such a decision. Given the choice, at 16 I would dropped out of school to take 'cid and smoke out with my friends. Granted, I still read a lot of books, etc..but most people need some kind of structure or oversite, it's always been like that and it always will.

I am arguing that implementing your "fixes" to society, and pretty much all libertarian "fixes" would in fact destroy society as we know it.

What you geniuses don't realize is that when the social safety net is dismantled it will have a detrimental effect on most people's lives, and I don't know you, but I doubt that you are member of idol-rich-elite, my man, and those are the only people that won't be screwed.

Sorry, but more politics

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