I'm so pissed off I can barely type. I just came back from an interview for an internship, 'bout 20 hours a week, while I'm still a full time student. I wouldn't mind some extra money, but I'm mostly interested in it transitioning into a full-time offer when I graduate in the spring.

Some quick facts:

Average MBA internship pay for us: $25-$35 an hour (I made 35 this summer)
Average starting salary for us: $89k.
Our placement rate for our entire 12 years of existance: 100%.
This company: Nothing noble or sexy, not saving the world, just shipping product. Big name.

I only spell that out so that we have a framework for the following tirade. And I assure you we're worth every penny. We can take that $100 retail product and change your cost to produce/ship it from $75 to $55. We can make a huge difference. Anywho.

This local company is large. And they neeeeeed an intern, badly, for this spot. They're over their heads right now, have no idea what they're paying for the field I'd be in. They barely have a handle on what's going on. So they began looking around for an MBA intern in this field, of which there are 5 in town (myself included). I reeeally want to work there, so that I can hopefully get placed right away when I graduate. Should've been a win-win.

BUT

They fucking looooow balled me. BAD. $15 an hour. It's not the guy I met with, who is genuinely very nice. It's their HR dept. They have a culture of not paying what jobs are worth, because they're big and local, and Madison is a medium-sized city. At $20 an hour, I'd have been unhappy, ditto $22. But fucking fifteen dollars an hour?

him - "It's better than McDonalds."
me - "It's not better than Best Buy. There are kids wearing polos on the floor of Best Buy right now making more than that. Is that the level of work HR is expecting to get in return?"
him - "..Well, no..."
me - "Then why don't they want to pay for it? And let's say I take it, somehow, and I do a great job, which I will. And then you want to offer me a fulltime job in May. You've had me at $32,000 a year this whole time, why in the world would you offer me the current market value of my job, high $80's?! Would I not be torpedoing myself by taking this?"

My only point is this... they NEED the work to be done. I am infinitely capable of doing the work, and frankly not a lot of people around here are. I WANT to do the work. Their elective decision to not pay enough is the only problem. If you have a hole in your roof, do you hire some jackass to come put a bucket under it, or do you hire a goddam roofing crew? They wanna fix their problems, but they don't want to pay for it. That pisses me off.

So, if they come back at $20, what do I do? I need the experience. I want to do the work.

there was an article on MSN.com about how people from state schools are more likely to become CEO cause they start a companies like yours at the bottom instead of taking high paying jobs with low ceiling of moving up like harvard grads.

I say take it now to get your foot in the door since it's not about the money
'

See, this is what I need to hear. And to your point, UW Madison has the Most CEO's of any organization (actally tied with Harvard, but still).

I'm pissed and insulted, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

You sound like a capitalist...free market.

You said there are five people they could hire? Well, guess what, one of 'em will take it for $15 an hour.

$15 an hour and work in your field isn't an insult when you're still a student living in Wisconsin. If those gigs at $25-35 an hour are the norm and so plentiful, if you're as good as your anger would indicate, you should have no problem telling this company to fuck off and getting somethign elsewhere...again...free market.

A few points...

None of the other 4 applied. And none of them would take $15 an hour.

I am not looking for other jobs - I'm a student, and they came to me.

More importantly, we're glossing over something here. This is a company who KNOWS what the job is worth, and has the money. They're publicly held - I can see their financials. This is not a good offer, nor anywhere near it.

I also refute the idea that I give a shit about the money, for its own sake. If my job is worth fifteen an hour, I'm cool with the $. Whatever you're making now, multiply it by 0.4, and than ask yourself if you'd work for that. That's my only issue. I am a principled person, and this smells of "I don't give a shit about my employees."

Go to your career center and ask for advice...if you really want the internship for the experience than ultimately you are probably better off taking it. I'd guess that you aren't really creating a lower market for yourself later but taking less now...you still are a student after all and internships like this probably aren't that plentiful in Madison and you're doing it for the experience not money where it will be a totally different story down the line. I'd say you're better off having an inside track in this firm if you want to work there later. And if they end up lowballing you on a permanent offer, they probably would have anyway. When you are looking for a permanent post MBA job, no one will ask what you made as an intern its irrelevant, but they will ask you about your experience. So suck it up would be my advice. But as I said, ask your career counselor, they'll have a better read on the market and might be able to help you make a case for more $.

we pay our mba interns around 40-50k.

$89K for starting salary?

Holy shit, I'm in the wrong field. Is your healthcare, 401K and bonus factored into that?

It sounds kind of like you shouldn't even argue with them about it. Arguing makes it sound like you almost want to take it for what they're offering, but if you just say "Sorry, that's not enough. Thanks but no," and leave it at that, they're left hanging, aren't they? If you're in a position to turn it down and you know they're in a position where they can't afford not to have someone fill the position, then it sounds like they think you're desperate. Make yourself sound not desperate. I know, I know - it's hard to do in the moment, but you're asking for advice, so here's advice.

No.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'll answer your points.

First, skip the bullshit that you don't care about money. You're going for your MBA in a field where you expect to start in the mid-upper 80s and don't seem to care about what it is you're doing as far as social relevance or personal fullfillment. you're just looking at moving product and making the company a buck. People who don't give a shit about money don't do that. I'm not saying that as an insult...just c'mon, I'm not that fuckin' stupid. And, there is nothing wrong with knowing the worth of money. Most people who think money isn't important have never had to live long without it.

If you think you can negotiate up...go for it. But, are these other higher paying jobs you speak of in Madison? If not, it is not a fair comparison. If so, go get one of 'em and stop bitching about this job. And, if you're not seeking a spot to get experience where you could shop around for other offers, maybe you should because without at least some experience, you're gonna have to be pretty well-connected to get a job in the 80s in the midwest just because you have an MBA.

Thanks Mayor. I'm horrible at negotiating. But when something pisses me off, I mention it (nicely). I think most of my reaction stems from dissapointment. I wanted this.

I'll forgive that because you don't know me. It's almost correct, too. I care about relative worth, but I don't have dreams of getting rich. I want to pay my bills and take vacations, but I'm not a typical MBA kinda guy. My specialization involves fixing things that are broken, straightening out kinks, etc. I wanted to do this because of the work itself... it happens to pay well, but that wasn't Step 1.

Be that as it may, I am obviously still concerned enough to bitch when I get lowballed. I just wanna make sure I capture the idea that it's because I think they're goin to lowball EVERYTHING for employees maybe, not just salaries. I don't want to be around that.

Midwest, Madison, etc -vs- salaries elsewhere: I expect a 5-10% dip if I stay here, not 60%. Internship salaries ARE viewed and discussed by future employers - it's already happened to me. There's a danger of setting precident.

Man do I sound like an asshole.

I never had anyone ask me what I was paid during an internship when i was interviewing for a job. But maybe they do now or maybe i just didn't interview with firms that do.

Kyle, tell them what you can reasonably expect to do for them. Tell them what you can potentially do for them. Tell them what you would like to work for, and what you hope to get out of the internship (asides from pay).

You can do this. Because you're the shit.

Mine are also published for all to see.

My thought was to prepare something and talk with someone from their HR, because I want us both to enjoy this, not just them.

1. Their stats, earnings, stock prices, competitive environment, etc.... ie, why they can afford it.
2. The stats regarding similar jobs, similar companies. ... ie, what it's worth.
3. What I've done... ie, why I'm worth it.

$15 an hour isn't so bad to start off. Take it.

This is another thing that I probably wasn't clear about. I'm not "starting off." I've got 7 years behind me of doing some or all of these things, plus the summer in Boston. It would be my first job at this company, of course, but not in that field.

There's an established, accepted, common sense range of pay for this kind of work, and $15 an hour is the equivalent of a full-armed slap to the face. If you're a web designer, and the going rate for a basic e-commerce site is like 7-10 grand, and someone with deep pockets offers you $3,000, ... it doesn't make any sense.

I know not much, but just enough about you Kyle that you know your shit, whatever that shit may be at the moment.

I also know when I'm hearing someone who seems to have their mind made up about something. If you reread this thread, it seems pretty obvious that you want/need to go in there and throw everything on the table. Remember, they came to you.

Yeah, sorry. I don't want to fall into the stereotype of waiting to hear what I wanted to hear all along. I really appreciate hearing differing opinions.

The school told me not to take it at that level, btw. And they want me to have the exposure as bad as I wanna have it.

There's always more to a job than the name on the door.

And that makes me question the whole endeavor. This summer, I LOVED the company I worked for. I'd do this work for them for ten an hour, because I fuckin loved them to death. Plus we made medications for tiny diseases that nobody else bothered with - profitable, but only to a certain point, and anybody who bothers to get into biotech usually chases that 200 Billion-a-year mark, not the 2 Billion. Everybody there just loved their job, loved where they were. That's addictive.

This is not that kinda place. I wonder how bad I'd miss it? I begin to think it's "a lot." But then this was the easy option, since they came to us, and I usually just fall into the easy option.

Aw fuck. Perhaps I have a lot more work to do.

Kyle,

I can get you a job making 80 grand plus starting out and they don't even care what MBA you went or that you went at all. Great benefits. Also get a car allowance and you work one week a month.












It's for Haliburton.