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 Post subject: Gwynn, Ripken Will Fall Short of Perfect
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:48 am 
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By RONALD BLUM, AP Baseball Writer
6:09 PM PST, January 8, 2007

NEW YORK -- Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. will fall short of becoming the first unanimous Hall of Fame picks, and Mark McGwire doesn't figure to be anywhere close to the necessary 75 percent when 2007 voting is released Tuesday.

Paul Ladewski of the Daily Southtown in suburban Chicago wrote in a column Monday that he submitted a blank ballot because of doubts he had over performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.

"At this point, I don't have nearly enough information to make a value judgment of this magnitude. In particular, that concerns any player in the Steroids Era, which I consider to be the 1993-2004 period, give or a take a season," Ladewski wrote.

"This isn't to suggest that Gwynn or Ripken or the majority of the other eligible candidates padded his statistics with performance-enhancers and cheated the game, their predecessors and the fans in the process. ... But tell me, except for the players themselves, who can say what they put into their bodies over the years with any degree of certainty?"

Gwynn and Ripken likely will vie for the highest percentages ever in Hall voting. McGwire, also on the ballot for the first time, probably will draw only one in four votes, according to a November survey of about 20 percent of eligible voters taken by The Associated Press.

McGwire finished with 583 home runs, seventh on the career list, and hit 70 homers in 1998 to set the season record, a mark Barry Bonds broke three years later.

But many voters have said they won't select McGwire for baseball's highest honor until he answers questions about steroids use. McGwire's refusal to address his past during a 2005 congressional hearing damaged his reputation among many of the 10-year members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America who cast ballots.

"I think I would vote for him," Gwynn said. "I think I would vote for a lot of those guys who are considered to have done it."

Tom Seaver holds the record percentage at 98.84, set when he was selected on 425 of 430 ballots in 1992.

Paul Hagen of the Philadelphia Daily News was among three writers who submitted blank ballots that year, joined by Bob Hertzel of The Pittsburgh Press and freelance writer Bob Hunter. Retired writers Deane McGowen and Bud Tucker did not vote for Seaver.

"That was the first year that baseball intervened with Pete Rose and kept his name off the ballot," Hagen said Monday. "I just felt like that was a way of protesting. It had nothing to do with Tom Seaver."

Ty Cobb was left off four ballots, Nolan Ryan wasn't on six, Hank Aaron on nine, Babe Ruth on 11 and Willie Mays on 23. Joe DiMaggio needed to appear on the ballot three times to get in, receiving 44 percent and 69 percent in his first two tries.

"I'll admit I sort of felt that sooner or later it might come my way," DiMaggio was quoted as saying by The New York Times after he was elected in 1955. "But after failing to make it during the first two elections for which I was eligible -- well, I just wasn't too sure."

Past elections also were cited by Ladewski as reasons for submitting a blank ballot.

"What makes Gwynn and Ripken so special that they deserve to be unanimous selections?" he wrote. "Walter Johnson, Cy Young and Honus Wagner didn't receive such Hall passes. Neither did Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. In fact, nobody has in the history of the game. Based on the standards set by the Hall of Fame voters decades ago, is there a neutral observer out there who can honestly say Gwynn and Ripken should be afforded an unprecedented honor?"

Reliever Bruce Sutter made it last year on the 13th try, when Jim Rice fell 53 votes short and Goose Gossage was 54 shy. Rice is on the ballot for the 13th time this year, and he may have a better chance at gaining election next year, when Tim Raines and David Justice are the top first-time eligibles. Rickey Henderson goes on the 2009 ballot.

Gwynn and Ripken are baseball dinosaurs who spent their entire major league careers with one team.

In a 20-year career with the San Diego Padres that began in 1982, Gwynn won eight NL batting titles to tie Honus Wagner's NL record and was a member of 15 All-Star teams. He finished with a .338 career average and won five Gold Gloves as an outfielder.

Ripken played in 2,632 consecutive games, breaking Lou Gehrig's ironman record of 2,130. Ripken spent 21 seasons with the Baltimore Orioles, hitting .276 with 431 home runs. A 19-time All-Star, he won the AL Rookie of the Year award in 1982, the AL MVP award in 1983 and 1991 and was a two-time Gold Glove shortstop.

Jose Canseco also is on the ballot for the first time. Canseco said he used steroids along with McGwire when they were teammates. Two-time Cy Young Award winner Bret Saberhagen, former NL MVP Ken Caminiti and Harold Baines also are on the ballot for the first time.

A player remains on the ballot for up to 15 elections as long as he gets 5 percent of the votes every year.

Any players elected will be inducted during ceremonies held July 29 at the Hall in Cooperstown, N.Y., along with anyone elected from the Veterans Committee vote, which will be announced Feb. 27.

* __

AP Sports Writers David Ginsburg in Baltimore and Bernie Wilson in San Diego contributed to this report.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:03 am 
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I loathe baseball and am not a Ripken fan at all, but I still wouldn't be able to justify not voting for him here.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:11 am 
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No doubt that the Baseball Hall of Fame is the hardest club to get into in all of professional sports. The standards are all about the history of the game.

In this case they should have blazed their own history and made it unanimous. These two were the class acts of Baseball and should be rewarded for it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:19 am 
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Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:27 am 
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Quote:
"What makes Gwynn and Ripken so special that they deserve to be unanimous selections?" he wrote. "Walter Johnson, Cy Young and Honus Wagner didn't receive such Hall passes. Neither did Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. In fact, nobody has in the history of the game.


because writers were douch bags in the past, we have to keep this douche baggy tradition going.

so stupid, and all it takes is one douche bag.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:44 am 
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Bee OK Wrote:
No doubt that the Baseball Hall of Fame is the hardest club to get into in all of professional sports. The standards are all about the history of the game.

discard players who went in because their friends ran the veteran's committee and you are close.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:19 am 
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Truly, who could justify not voting when something so important is at stake?

WHO I ASK YOU?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:40 am 
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If Gwynn and Ripken don't get in the HOF becomes a joke. Both deserve to be in the HOF, and perhaps signify the last of the old guard where you play out yr career in one location, and become more for the city than just a baseball player. I agree with the douchebag comments, and I also think some of these writers need to be dragged out to the street and knocked around a little bit.

Being a lifelong Orioles fan, I'm a bit biased. Though, I think its certainly founded. I really want to be in Cooperstown when Cal is inducted.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:10 am 
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While I agree with the distinguished gentleman from western Maryland, I don't think Gwynn and Ripken not getting in should be a concern. The focus of the aritcle is whether they will/should be unanimous selections. I'd vote for them first ballot, but I also tend to avoid douchebaggery when possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:48 am 
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Flying Rabbit Wrote:
If Gwynn and Ripken don't get in the HOF becomes a joke. Both deserve to be in the HOF, and perhaps signify the last of the old guard where you play out yr career in one location, and become more for the city than just a baseball player. I agree with the douchebag comments, and I also think some of these writers need to be dragged out to the street and knocked around a little bit.

Being a lifelong Orioles fan, I'm a bit biased. Though, I think its certainly founded. I really want to be in Cooperstown when Cal is inducted.


There is no danger of them not getting in. Step back from the ledge.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:32 am 
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jewels santana Wrote:
Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.


DAMN!
That is something that I didn't know.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:58 am 
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The Jimmy Rice he Wrote:
All's I'm sayin' is The Jimmy Rice, he got the numbers for the hall. The Jimmy Rice gotta get the VOTES


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:15 am 
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frosted Wrote:
The Jimmy Rice he Wrote:
All's I'm sayin' is The Jimmy Rice, he got the numbers for the hall. The Jimmy Rice gotta get the VOTES


I agree with The Jimmy Rice.
Managers had to figure his bat into their strategies every damn time they faced the BoSox.
He was a force and that should be recognized.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:22 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:23 pm 
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PopTodd Wrote:
jewels santana Wrote:
Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.


DAMN!
That is something that I didn't know.


another weird Gwynn stat, he only walked 790 times in his career.

i'd like to see a stat on how many pithces he faced in his career, dude fouled of like 20 each atbat.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:25 pm 
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jewels santana Wrote:
PopTodd Wrote:
jewels santana Wrote:
Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.


DAMN!
That is something that I didn't know.


another weird Gwynn stat, he only walked 790 times in his career.

i'd like to see a stat on how many pithces he faced in his career, dude fouled of like 20 each atbat.


Just like Ichiro... Horrible on-base guy. He's lucky they never put him in a platoon.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:30 pm 
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If I were drafting a team to play an imaginary game, I'd draft the Hawk and Jack Morris over Jim Rice and Goose Gossage.

Not saying the latter doesn't belong. Especially Gossage. I think it's stupid to not consider certain postions for the Hall. Gossage is as good as it gets for a relief pitcher/closer and therefore deserves entry.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:30 pm 
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i don't know if i'd call lifetime .380 horrible OBP, or even anywhere near bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:34 pm 
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jewels santana Wrote:
Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.


and how would steroids help that stat?? OBP's more impressive than HR totals.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:36 pm 
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paladisiac Wrote:
jewels santana Wrote:
Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.


and how would steroids help that stat?? OBP's more impressive than HR totals.


are you talking to me? i never said anything about roids.

edit: actually i'm confused by every aspect of this post.

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Last edited by jewels santana on Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:41 pm 
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jewels santana Wrote:
Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.


That's one season's worth for Adam Dunn.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:42 pm 
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jewels santana Wrote:
paladisiac Wrote:
jewels santana Wrote:
Tony Gwynn struck out 434 times in his ENTIRE career.


and how would steroids help that stat?? OBP's more impressive than HR totals.


are you talking to me? i never said anything about roids.


no one did. i was referring to the original article & mcgwire's chances.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:42 pm 
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jewels santana Wrote:
i don't know if i'd call lifetime .380 horrible OBP, or even anywhere near bad.


I was being facetious, & just carrying over an argument made against Ichiro. Statisticians go on about how the OBP should be higher, since his average by itself is already so high. Anything under 410 or 420 for OBP seems ridiculously low, to them.

That said, I'd take a guy who almost always puts the ball in play, over a swing-&-miss specialist. Better things will happen due the former.


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