Gossage is in next year. Everyone else lost ground this year due to Ripken and Gwynn (which totally doesn't make sense, see below) but Gossage still gained and was borderline. I hope Tim Raines makes it next year.

So Dawson, Blyleven, and Rice had fewer votes this year than last. Presumably this is because Ripken and Gwynn were on the ballot as slam dunks this year. Does this mean that suddenly, because of who else was on the ballot, specific writers decided that people they voted for in the past weren't HOFers anymore? That's ridiculous. Writers are allowed to change their minds, so if that's the reason that's fine, but if they vote for them again next year, that's hilariously stupid.

You serious Clark?

He's Dale Murphy + durability....which rightfully gets him in the hall, but I don't know that either dude you list is better than Willie Mays.

I certainly don't think you can make a case for Rock Raines

Even then I still think Jack Morris is a hall of famer. Besides Nolan Ryan, I don't know who I would build a team with in the 80's without having Morris as the ace of my staff.

The probolem with the baseball hall of fame is that the bar is actually set too low. It's The Hall of Fame, meaning the GREATEST and not necessarily the best players of a few years, or even an era. Numbers should matter, but not necessarily be the end all be all. I don't think Raffy belongs (how did he EVER make a single team any better?) and I certainly don't think you can make a case for Rock Raines...who's next Willie Wilson? This shouldn't be about your favorite player as a kid, this should be about the baddest mofos to lace up cleats. Winners over a long period of time, and guys who undeniably were the most amazing at their position (the Koufac Corollary, if you will)

Also, someone elaborate on that "George Brett was a cheater" comment, pls/

Besides Nolan Ryan, I don't know who I would build a team with in the 80's without having Morris as the ace of my staff.

I remember Dave Steib being pretty good and he's certainly no hall of famer.

Also:

He sometimes even refused to talk to reporters, and once infamously gave a would-be female scribe an explanation by telling her,
“ I don't talk to women unless they're on top of me or I'm on top of them.

and:In 1991, Morris signed a one-year contract with his hometown Minnesota Twins. He enjoyed another great season, posting 18 wins as Minnesota faced the Atlanta Braves in the World Series. Morris started for the Twins three times, with his final outing being Game 7. In a postseason performance for the ages, the 36-year-old hurler threw 10 innings of shutout baseball against the Braves as the Twins won the World title on a 10th inning single by Gene Larkin that scored Dan Gladden. Morris was named the World Series MVP for his fantastic performance. He holds the records for most postseason wins by a Twin, with 4 acquired in 1991.

(Only Don Larsen has pitched a better post season game than this one)

and:

On Tuesday, April 6, 1993, Morris set a major league record by making his 14th consecutive opening day start, an impressive achievement since he played on numerous title-contending teams and the opening day start is usually given to either the best pitcher in the rotation or the pitcher with the highest level of respect among the players and coaches.

How bout Jack Morris wearing a T-shirt under his jersey of the American Flag captioned, "Try Burning this Flag"

Well stated my friend and about as true as can be. Morris has better credentials than many of the starters in the Hall right now.

Not with that ERA of his. He'd easily be the worst pitcher in the Hall.

Two World Series performances does not make a HOF (make it three i guess).

His ERA would be the highest but his career was a lot better than three playoffs. You read the part about him having the streak of most opening day starts and having the most wins in the 80's .

And not to mention if i had to pick 6 pitchers from the 80's to start for me i'd pick

Gooden
Clemens
Valenzuela
Hersheiser
Carlton
Ryan

And not to mention if i had to pick 6 pitchers from the 80's to start for me i'd pick

Gooden
Clemens
Valenzuela
Hersheiser
Carlton
Ryan

of that list only Clemens, Ryan, and Carlton had a career. Hersheier, Valenzuela, and Gooden were dominant for a couple of years and that's it. And I'd take Clemens, Ryan, and Carlton first too. But Carlton was retired by 86'. For all real purposes he was a 70's pitcher. Ryan was also as much a 70's pitcher as an 80's. He was just durable as fack but I'd defintely still consider him and 80's pitcher. Clemens first real year in the pro's was 86'. Morris is obviously not sure fire or he would be in. Opening day starts mean that he was considered the ace of several qualitity teams with good staffs for a long time, which is something. So, I'

Steib, Stewart, Bob Welch, Mike Scott, Brett Saberhagen, Oil Can Boyd, Charlie Hough.....

All y'all 70s nigga think Jim Rice, Blyleven, and the Reds' shortstop should make it, but somehow Morris is borderline, or below board. He pitched 6 years in the 80s and won more than Ryan and Blyleven.

Next, you're gonna tell me Glavine is just "pretty good"

Steib, Stewart, Bob Welch, Mike Scott, Brett Saberhagen, Oil Can Boyd, Charlie Hough.....

All y'all 70s nigga think Jim Rice, Blyleven, and the Reds' shortstop should make it, but somehow Morris is borderline, or below board. He pitched 6 years in the 80s and won more than Ryan and Blyleven.

Next, you're gonna tell me Glavine is just "pretty good"

is more than "pretty good" your criteria for HOF. Everyone you mentioned but maybe blyleven and morris isn't deserving.

I don't think Glavine is very close to HOF material. In my opinion, Clemens, RJ, and Madduxx are the only starters nearly retirement that are deserving. What happened to your best of all-time, not best of this generation argument...or do you make an exception for your own generation of players.

Tim Raines is no Hall of Famer.

And finally, what about the "other stuff"? Let's see how these players fare in two different "comprehensive" statistics, WARP (wins above replacement player) and win shares, both of which include stolen bases and defensive value (but don't include baserunning, aside from the steals):


WARP Shares
Raines 128 390
Murphy 90 294
Rice 87 282

Rice was a really good hitter, of course, but he contributed little in left field or on the bases. Murphy was a solid center fielder, and Raines was a good left fielder who also ranks as one of the more valuable baserunners of all time. I'm surprised by those numbers a bit. I didn't expect Raines to outdistance Murphy to the extent that he does, and I did expect Murphy to have a big edge over Rice (he doesn't).

I would like to note that we've stuck to objective analysis. No blathering ("most-feared!") or carefully calculated time spans ("most home runs in the American League over these 11 seasons I've chosen specifically to make this hitter look good!"). Just a few cold facts, which usually is the best place to start. Rice was an excellent player for a few years and a very good one for a few more. He was, on balance, roughly as good over the course of his career as two of his contemporaries, left fielders Roy White and Jose Cruz.

But Rice wasn't quite as good as Murphy, who was deemed a Hall of Famer by only 9 percent of the voters this year. Rice wasn't nearly as good as Raines, and next year, Raines is going to fall well short of election. That's fine. I'm all for maintaining the Hall's high standards. But Rice was named on nearly two-thirds of the ballots this year, and he stands an excellent chance of being elected at some point in the next two years. That's fine, too. But if Rice is the new standard for Hall of Fame outfielders, we need to make room for not only Raines and Murphy but a few dozen other players as well.