AKA - I want to talk shit to rads, but I can't quite recall the specifics

nah, i just don't feel like rattling off the thousands of Metal/Rock/Indie bands that have been influenced by KISS. i'm way too lazy right now.

That's twice you've ducked the questions. I really don't know who KISS influenced besides Weezer, Dale.

You're kidding of course.

Not really. There is pre-Alive and post-Alive with rock records. If you don't think that Alive wasn't a monumental moment for recorded concerts, then sorry, its probably a personal bias on yr side--and I can't blame you. You probably don't like their music, their persona, or what they brought to the music table by way of proteges. However, to short-change their place in rock history, when arguably they were the biggest band in world...come on.

I think reducing pre-Alive albums to something crooners put out is bullshit (c.f. Live at Leeds, Live at the Apollo). However, I don't think anyone would quibble that Alive! was their biggest and likely most influential album for them at that point as it gave them massive exposure (peaked at #9, charted for 110 weeks).

See that's the thing, I DO follow music and that's why I can't ever take KISS seriously, because they are less a music act and more a touring Broadway production/vehicle to sell merchandise. Its the ultimate sham for rubes. So enjoy your time on the Midway and bring me back a candied apple (and a KISS coke mirror)

There was a period of about 2 years or so that they were my favorite band. Around the time of Blood Sugar Sex Magic, the love affair began to fade. (I still don't like their "best" album as much as a couple of its immediate predecessors.)

But, love them or hate them, the Chilis were pretty damn influential. The stuff they influenced may suck, but that doesn't diminish their impact.

You make it sound like they're the fucking Monkees or some shit. Those early albums, before there were dolls and cartoons etc. are excellent rock and roll. So who cares if they had makeup and weird shit on. The Dolls get a pass with their dresses? And Mick and his makeup?

i cannot deny them being a sham in many ways, but that's besides the point.

The crooners comment was tongue-in-cheek, but the sentiment stands that a live record was often viewed as a waste of vinyl at that point, and traditionally didn't sell well. Alive was no different. If was thought to bomb on impact, especially since their first 3 records sold horribly to that point. I'm not disputing the fact that there were great and amazing live records prior to that. I am, arguing that the public consciousness changed on live records (i.e.--the record buying public) when Alive came out.

KISS isn't for everyone. I know they rub people the wrong way, and trust me I wish Gene and Paul would just disband rather than going forward with Tommy Thayer and Eric Carr aping Ace and Peter. Gene does need to shut his mouth, and stop stepping out into every interview available. The whole merchandising comment though is a little harsh, considering for every KISS knick-knack out there, I can find just as many Jimi, Beatles, Elvis or Morrison things to match.

Actually, that does diminish their impact.

Everyone who is derisive of KISS in this thread: honestly, to what extent have you actually listened to their catalog?

I found Ace's new album on usenet last night and it isn't bad at all. I liked his cover of 'Fox on the Run'.

Its actually pretty cool to hear and see him doing well. It was kinda dicey there for a little while. He's always been super-nice to fans, and been very giving to collectors. I'm definitely looking forward to him hitting DC/Baltimore on his tour.

Kiss is a no-brainer. It's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, not a Nobel Prize.

Listen, KISS deserves a place in the HOF if only because they sold a fucking mountain of records. Anyone crying about how they don't belong in the HOF has managed to fantasize that the place has a hint of integrity, which clearly isn't the case. You think ZZ Top should be in there? or the Bee Gees?

Their music is generic to me, and their lyrics make make Bon Scott seem like goddamned T.S. Eliot, but they have made an impact in music as a whole. I like a lot of stupid rock too, though, so who am I to deny them induction into a sham industry circle jerk. They're cartoon rock, just like the Stooges, Ramones, et al. I like those bands better (and they didn't write 300 songs about their cocks) but they also haven't sold a tenth of the albums KISS has. While popularity isn't everything, it can't really be denied, either.

HOWEVER:



This is ridiculous. None of those above (except probably Elvis) had anything to do with the many, many absurd products bearing their name. Whether through shady business dealings or greedy family or destitute former band members, these people had their names attached to all sorts of shit.
In KISS's case, they've been completely aware of what's going on and have approved of it. KISS Kasket, KISS kondoms, skateboards, comic books, trading cards, the KISS coffeehouse, Mr. Potato Head dolls... Let's not kid ourselves.

I guess we should just put a clause that if you sell x amount of records, you get in the hall. Hello Huey Lewis and the News.

I'm not disagreeing with anything else you've said, but Billy Gibbons is incredibly talented (one of the very few guitar players Jimmy Hendrix looked up to), and you cannot deny the influence / crack-like hookiness that came out of the Bee Gees nest once upon a time.

Don't make me put on "I Am A Woman In Love" with Barbara Streisand.






Please.

my bad.

Do you honestly think that this isn't considered?

I was just looking... Huey Lewis had 19 singles in the top ten. I'm not sure it'd shock me if they got in.

No, but that seems to the only really good thing you can say about Kiss. And were also discussing two fundamentally different concepts - should Kiss get in by my standards or whether they should get in by the current hall of fame standards.

I won't be shocked or surprised by KISS or Huey Lewis making the Hall either . But at the same time, I think they're shitty music acts that don't deserve the distinction of being considered a rock'n' roll band at all. The notion that they would be bestowed rock's supposed highest honor is down right offensive to me.

I understand KISS is not for a lot of people, but I don't think they are a shitty act. If you don't like them, fine, but they are no less shitty than bands like the Ramones or the Sex Pistols. They played loud and sang about dumb shit. This is a great vid of them from the early days if you haven't seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcLFXLW0wRg

They deserve to be in the hall for their influence on marketing and showmanship, alone. And they did have a couple of halfway decent songs. But, I maintain that they also wrote some of the shittiest songs ever to make the top 40. "Do You Love Me?" is the prime example. Ugh.