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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:27 pm 
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and hellooooooo south america.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:28 pm 
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almost Wrote:
konstantinl Wrote:
It's easy to critise the response to the genocide in Rwanda but what exactly was the international community supposed to do?

If one group of people in a country wants to annihilate an other group of people in that same country it's pretty difficult to prevent it. The genocide was over in 100 days and was unexpected. Very little time to plan and execute a co-ordinated relief effort with military backing.

How long for instance would it take to ship tanks or APC's from the US to an African port and then transport and deploy them (I think I'm right in saying Rwanda is landlocked) to where they were needed?

The major world powers and the UN didn't deal with the situation very well but often, while it's difficult to accept, it's impossible to prevent evil from happening.


If UN Peacekeepers are already there . . . then it's pretty easy, isn't it. I mean, they have guns, and genocide (by machete, which does not beat gun) is antithetical to peace. So do your fucking job and it's practically cake.


I think your being rather naive. It's not that easy. 250,000 troops in Iraq can barely contain a much smaller situation in Iraq. UN troops in Rwanda would have been there in much smaller numbers and probably weren't equipped to do anything other than protect themselves.

91% of Rwanda's population lived in rural areas. It's a country of high mountains, jungle and swamp. Roads are poor or non existant. Communication links are patchy etc, etc. In the real world there are limitations on what you can actually do. You just can't magic solutions out of the air.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:36 pm 
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konstantinl Wrote:
almost Wrote:
konstantinl Wrote:
It's easy to critise the response to the genocide in Rwanda but what exactly was the international community supposed to do?

If one group of people in a country wants to annihilate an other group of people in that same country it's pretty difficult to prevent it. The genocide was over in 100 days and was unexpected. Very little time to plan and execute a co-ordinated relief effort with military backing.

How long for instance would it take to ship tanks or APC's from the US to an African port and then transport and deploy them (I think I'm right in saying Rwanda is landlocked) to where they were needed?

The major world powers and the UN didn't deal with the situation very well but often, while it's difficult to accept, it's impossible to prevent evil from happening.


If UN Peacekeepers are already there . . . then it's pretty easy, isn't it. I mean, they have guns, and genocide (by machete, which does not beat gun) is antithetical to peace. So do your fucking job and it's practically cake.


I think your being rather naive. It's not that easy. 250,000 troops in Iraq can barely contain a much smaller situation in Iraq. UN troops in Rwanda would have been there in much smaller numbers and probably weren't equipped to do anything other than protect themselves.

91% of Rwanda's population lived in rural areas. It's a country of high mountains, jungle and swamp. Roads are poor or non existant. Communication links are patchy etc, etc. In the real world there are limitations on what you can actually do. You just can't magic solutions out of the air.


True, but by withdrawing themselves from the situation, UN Peacekeepers weren't doing anything to help the situation. Remember also that the vast majority of the genocide was committed with machetes. No, there's no magic solution, but you don't just bury your head in the sand and plead "non-interference." You don't abandon a whole country to chaos because the situation is going to get messy.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:54 pm 
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Colin, I'm not sure I understand the question here. Are you wondering why OKC registers more loudly with Americans when the scope was much narrower and less catastrophic, or are you trying to reason ways of preventing these sorts of tragedies from occuring or leaving such a wide path of destruction?

It seems to me that the conversation has taken a turn for the latter query, but I may be wrong. If so, there are plenty of conflicting statements since it seems to be the general opinion that we didn't do enough in Rwanda and now Darfur, but at the same time there have been several mentions that American intervention has piss-poor track record. This two statements don't jive.

To me, these sorts of situations will never be preventable. Partly because it can happen so quickly and out of plain view that by the time the magnitude is discovered it is too late.

It's like asking someone to stop a wildfire. By the time it's reached a certain intensity, you have to fight as best you can and hope to contain it. You can't undo the damage it's caused, you can only hope to reduce future damages.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:58 pm 
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almost Wrote:
True, but by withdrawing themselves from the situation, UN Peacekeepers weren't doing anything to help the situation. Remember also that the vast majority of the genocide was committed with machetes.


Even if I'm toting a gun, this scares the dog shit out of me. A guy with a gun, or even several guys with guns aren't gonna be much of a match for a bloodthirsty mob with machetes that are looking to bust heads.

The Somali citizens had lots of guns, but the sheer numbers and the inability to distinguish friend from foe gave American servicemen quite a tough load to sort through. I bet machetes wouldn't be much of a walk in the park either.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:08 pm 
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Elvis Fu Wrote:
almost Wrote:
True, but by withdrawing themselves from the situation, UN Peacekeepers weren't doing anything to help the situation. Remember also that the vast majority of the genocide was committed with machetes.


Even if I'm toting a gun, this scares the dog shit out of me. A guy with a gun, or even several guys with guns aren't gonna be much of a match for a bloodthirsty mob with machetes that are looking to bust heads.


Good point. I guess what I'm saying is that regardless of how difficult it would be to quell the violence, that was the UN's job. They are supposed to keep the peace, and it seems to me that allowing/facilitating a genocide is not in keeping with that goal.

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