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 Post subject: ok this is pretty weak
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 4:56 am 
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Son dies in Afghanistan fighting for U.S., but his Mom isn't part of Gold Star organization, and for an excellent reason.. :roll:

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WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. - Everyone agrees that Ligaya Lagman is a Gold Star mother, part of the long line of mournful women whose sons or daughters gave their lives for their country. Her 27-year-old son, Army Staff Sgt. Anthony Lagman, was killed last year in Afghanistan, but the largest organization of these women, the American Gold Star Mothers Inc., has rejected Lagman, a Filipino, for membership because — though a permanent resident and a taxpayer — she is not a U.S. citizen.



"There's nothing we can do because that's what our organization says: You have to be an American citizen," national President Ann Herd said Thursday. "We can't go changing the rules every time the wind blows."

That explanation isn't satisfying the war veterans who sponsored Lagman's application, some other members of the mothers' group or several members of Congress.

"It is disheartening that any mother of a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who has died in the line of duty would be denied membership in an organization that honors the memory of fallen service men and women," said Rep. Nita Lowey (news, bio, voting record), whose district includes Lagman's home in Yonkers.

Rep. Eliot Engel (news, bio, voting record), who represents an adjoining district, said the group should change its rules immediately.

"Whatever the excuse, American Gold Star Mothers' decision smacks of xenophobia and is in stark contrast to what Mrs. Lagman's son fought and died for," Engel said.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said, "We now have many noncitizens serving honorably in our armed services, and I hope that this can be satisfactorily resolved."

A past president of the mothers' group, Dorothy Oxendine, of Farmingdale, said, "There's no discrimination in a national cemetery. There's no discrimination when they get killed side by side. So how can we discriminate against a mother?"

Another past president, Ann Wolcott, of York, Pa., said, "Times have changed since this organization was started, and there are a lot of men and women serving today whose parents are not citizens. I think they deserve every honor and privilege that we have as Gold Star mothers."

Oxendine and Wolcott said they believe that given the increasing diversity of the armed forces there have been noncitizens in the 1,200-member organization who overlooked or ignored the citizenship question on the application.

Lagman has lived in the United States for more than 20 years. She was not at home Thursday, apparently tending to her husband, who is hospitalized. But her other son, Chris Lagman, said in Thursday's The Journal News that all she wants "is recognition as the mother of this fallen soldier."

Lagman's application was initiated by Ben Spadaro, a veteran from Yonkers, who said he learned about the citizenship rules of the American Gold Star Mothers while working on a national cemetery committee of the Veterans Administration. When he learned of Anthony Lagman's death and saw Lagman was a citizen but his mother was not, he thought, "He's buried in a military cemetery, with full honors. She should be able to join."

"We decided to tell the absolute truth on the application," he said. "We put down, `I am not an American citizen.' It was a ploy to get them to reject her, and then we said they should change the rules."

But the organization's 12-member executive board voted against any change.

"We can't go changing the rules every time we turn around," said Herd, the national president. "When we have problems within our organization with people not abiding by the rules, we just get it straightened out, we don't change the rules."

Oxendine, the former president, said she is sure the general membership would approve a rules change if the board did.

"I can't believe that 12 intelligent women would ever not have it in their hearts to think about another Gold Star mother," Oxendine said. "You pay a high price to join the American Gold Star Mothers. I figure her dues were paid."

Spadaro isn't giving up. He had his brother, a Florida lawyer, write to the Department of Justice, noting the mothers' organization has received federal assistance and demanding an investigation.

And on Monday, during Memorial Day observances at Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 2285 in Eastchester, Lagman will be presented with a gold necklace bearing a simple gold star.
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 8:54 am 
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how is it weak? while it's a damn shame he died fighting for the country he lived in, he and his family are not citizens. it's not Gold Star's fault.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:12 am 
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Actually it is, D. They have full power to change policy and choose not to simply to maintain the status quo. It's a very weak argument because they don't defend the rule itself. They could say if the mother cares enough about the country she should naturalize (word choice?), but they don't... probably for fear of appearing racist. If the mom is a white Canadian, this might not even make press.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:23 am 
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while i admitedly know very little about this "gold star" club, i do know a little of their history and this current form of the group seems a little twisted. it's like getting a boy scout merit badge of death and is missing the heartfelt beginings of what the 'gold star' actually meant....

by the way does this story remind anyone else of the caroline's spine's song "sullivan"?


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:53 am 
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Dalen Wrote:
how is it weak? while it's a damn shame he died fighting for the country he lived in, he and his family are not citizens. it's not Gold Star's fault.


Of course it's Gold Star's fault. They have the dumbass rule. They can change the dumbass rule. Ergo, it's Gold Star's fault.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:54 am 
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No shit, sketch. Right on. It's like saying "we have this rule that says No Italians, going back to when we founded in 1855, and well.. rules are rules..." No they're not. Rules can be changed in the face of overwhelming common sense.

So she can give her tax money and her son's life, but we can't give her club membership?? They're probably going to have to swallow this one, and it will hurt going down I imagine.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:57 am 
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No organization should be forced to admit members by outside forces, but I'm all for making them feel sheepish and like they're living in the 19th century in order to persuade them to wise up.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:01 am 
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Phil Spoon Wrote:
No organization should be forced to admit members by outside forces, but I'm all for making them feel sheepish and like they're living in the 19th century in order to persuade them to wise up.


yup. It's their club, and they can do as they see fit, but they must be willing to accept what comes along with it. I do not believe they are in fact ready for it in this case.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:02 am 
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Phil Spoon Wrote:
No organization should be forced to admit members by outside forces, but I'm all for making them feel sheepish and like they're living in the 19th century in order to persuade them to wise up.


wise up? these are the rules they've gone by for years. they might not be fair in some instances, but they have the right to not change them.

not saying i agree with the decision, but they're sticking by their guns so to speak....as inconsiderate as it may be.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:05 am 
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Yes they have the right not to change them, just as everyone else has the right to call them quasi-xenophobe imperialists. Or something.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:07 am 
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Phil Spoon Wrote:
Yes they have the right not to change them, just as everyone else has the right to call them quasi-xenophobe imperialists. Or something.


it'll be interesting to see if they do get hammered on for this, or if it just gets swept under a rug.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:08 am 
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Dalen Wrote:
it'll be interesting to see if they do get hammered on for this, or if it just gets swept under a rug.

Agreed.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:08 am 
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Dalen Wrote:
Phil Spoon Wrote:
Yes they have the right not to change them, just as everyone else has the right to call them quasi-xenophobe imperialists. Or something.


it'll be interesting to see if they do get hammered on for this, or if it just gets swept under a rug.


My thoughts exactly, if perhaps for different reasons.

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[quote="Bloor"]He's either done too much and should stay out of the economy, done too little because unemployment isn't 0%, is a dumb ingrate who wasn't ready for the job or a brilliant mastermind who has taken over all aspects of our lives and is transforming us into a Stalinist style penal economy where Christian Whites are fed into meat grinders. Very confusing[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:10 am 
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It does seem to miss the whole point of honoring sacrifice for one's country.

It's the sacrifice that's important, not the specific rules regarding the honoring.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:25 am 
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Private organization, they have the right to be stupid. The last thing we need is for the gummint to get involve...

and Nita Lowey is an idiot.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:38 am 
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"But now they won't let me join their crappy club for jerks!"

Homer Simpson

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:29 pm 
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I'd start my own club. We'd be cooler, have cheaper drinks and more people would want to join the newer, more interesting raves.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:05 pm 
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Dalen Wrote:
how is it weak? while it's a damn shame he died fighting for the country he lived in, he and his family are not citizens. it's not Gold Star's fault.


Read the article, smart-ass. The son was a citizen -- his mother is not. So, how it becomes, "he and his family are not citizens"... Are you smoking crack, or something?

Prolly.

But, just remember: ius sanguinis, et ius solis, scum-breath. Oh, and getting to shore, if you're Puban. Because Castro is so much worse than Samoza, Diaz, Pinochet, Ortega, and Peron. Yes, yes, oh my.


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