lol

britain's exchange program with the nypd is a rousing success

Not even close.

The man, who died at Stockwell Tube on Friday, has been named by police as Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27.

I was alluding to the earlier reports - didn't read thru the link on this thread thru to the end - but, yes, you're right.

... Though, depending on the extent of indigenous family history Mr Menezes might have had, he could have looked a little Asian - east, if not central - all the same.

To wit: Chicano Deftone and Team Sleep founder Chino Moreno. Nicknamed Chino (Sp., Chinese (masc.)) 'cause he looks more Nahuatl than Extremaduran.

hey, if you dont listen to police, some bad shits gonna go down. its unfortunate he had to die to learn the lesson.

I'm of this opinion too. Why the fuck was he running? Not that it's a crime to run, and you shouldn't be shot on sight for it, but given what's going on in London right now, it's doesn't make a whole lot of sense to behave that way.

Right now, N.W.A. is in full effect
Judge Dre residing
In the case of
N.W.A. v. the Police Dept.
Prosecuting attorneys are
MC Ren
Ice Cube
And Eazy Motherfucking E

Order, order, order
Ice Cube, take the motherfucking stand
Do you swear to tell the tuth
the whole truth
And nothing but the truth
So help your black ass

Got-damn right

Then why don't you tell all these motherfuckers
What the fuck you've got to say

Fuck the police
Coming straight out the underground
A young (expl.) got it bad 'cause he's brown

Another undercover police dick
That has the authority to kill a minority

Fuck that shit
'Cause I ain't the one
For a punk motherfucker
With a badge and a gun
To be beaten on
And thrown in jail
We could go toe to toe
In the middle of a cell

Fucking with me
'Cause I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searching my car
Looking for the product
Thinking every (expl.) is selling narcotic

They'd rather see me in the pen
Than me and Lorenzo rolling in a Benz-o
Me and the police are out of shape
And when I'm finished
Bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can swallow
Bread and water

I don't know if they fags or what
But they search a (expl.) down
Grabbing his nuts
But on the other hand
Without a gun they can't get none
And don't let it be a black and white one
He'll slam you down to the street-top
Black police selling out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm
On any motherfucker in a blue uniform
Just 'cause I'm from the CPT
Punk police are afraid of me
A young (expl.) on a war-path
And when I'm finished
Oh, yeah, there's going to be a blood-path
White cops
Dying in L.A.
Yo, Dre, I've got something to say...

I've been having this discussion elsewhere today, and I'm curious: are people really of the opinion that the cops were justified in shooting this guy dead simply because he ran away?

I mean, as you said DumpJack, there's a heavy climate in London right now. But it goes both ways. If I were a person of color in that city and suddenly a group of plainclothes cops started waving guns at me, I'd be liable to bolt for the nearest exit as well.

And I understand that the guy had come from a home that was under surveillance, so it's quite possible (and probable) that he had been involved in some kind of illegal activity, but still - unloading 5 rounds into him doesn't exactly seem like the appropriate action in a democratic society.

I think it's incredibly unfortunate, but given the situations that have happened in London, ANYONE running away after being told to stop, running in the tubes no less, is going to look extremely suspicious, and wearing the big, bulky clothing he was described to have worn, AND having come out of a place under surveillance for the attacks . . . that's pretty friggin' stupid. I don't and can't blame the officers for reacting the way they did - had the guy a bomb on him and they hadn't killed him, and he'd set it off, we'd be hearing all over the place how the London police can't do their job. You would think common sense would tell people in London that things are going to be pretty touchy for awhile, so don't do anything stupid - like run away when told to stop. I feel sorry for the guy's friends and family, but I also feel sorry for the officers who were backed into a situation where they really had no choice but to kill this guy - they simply couldn't take the chance with this guy. Can you imagine what the officer who took him down is going through right now?

I thought of this too. This wasn't a couple of obvious bobbies that everyone recognizes as an authority. One of the eyewitnesses said something that the guy was obviously scared shitless about what was happening and they thought that maybe he didn't understand. And a good point about the cops too, they're under heavy pressure to stop anything else from happening and a fleeing suspect practically forces an action on their part. They can't be feeling too good having the world looking at them right now.

Um...they didn't need to shoot him in the head. That's my opinion.

since when do roadblocks shoot the right people?

I think the really disturbing thing about this was the guy wasn't shot fleeing the police, he was shot AFTER he had been caught and pinned to the ground by police officers.

Five times. In the head.

When you combine this fuck up with the other story that the police released the picture of a completely innocent man with the same name as one of the suicide bombers to the world press it makes it look like they don't have a fucking clue what their doing.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Just to clarify this a bit it's my understanding that the house under surveillance had been split up into a number of different flats.

If i was in Britain I'd be more scared of the police then the bombers. 5 Shots? In the head? After he's been pinned down? These cop(s) should be had up for murder.

that is some cold-blooded shit. there is no possible justification for that.

Don't run away when they tell you to stop. Problem solved.

+ what Mot and Dumpjack have already said. Did the police overreact? Yes. Would I have overreacted if I was in that situation? You're damn right. Reason #23424 why I'm not a police officer and have never had a desire to be one.

I don't see how he could have known that they were cops, though, just people with guns. At least not until they were close enough to badge.

If you were in Brazil and people in casual clothing pulled guns, started shouting at you in a foreign language and came running towards you, what would you do? I defy anyone to say they wouldn't run.

The facts are this man could have easily been intercepted before he got anywhere near a underground station, by uniformed police men, in a controled situation. But he wasn't.

The police fucked up and killed a man in a brutal fashion. If that's now acceptable, they I guess the terrorists are winning.

Funnily enough I read Jospeh Conrad's 'The Secret Agent' about six weeks ago, a book about a bombing attrocity in Victorian London from which I underlined this quote. Turned out to be quite prophetic.

"Nothing would please me more than to see Inspector Heat and his like take to shooting us down in broad daylight with the approval of the public. Half our battle would be won then: the disintegration of the old morality would have set in in it's very temple"

As I understand it, guns among the civilian population is much less common here than it is in North America. If you're white in a British ethnic neighborhood wielding a gun, chances of you being plainclothes police are pretty high. Normally when you yell at someone to stop, I would also expect you to identify yourself as a police officer. Whether they believe you (or can understand you) or not is not your problem. I don't know if the cops in question did that, but they should have.

Since they believed him to be a suicide bomber wouldn't they have used their 'head shot' shoot-to-kill guidelines to kill him anyway, regardless of him running or not?

As I understand it he wasn't challenged until he walked from his home to the underground station. Only then did the police act.

Yeah but if guns were being pointed at you, gun ownership statistics wouldn't be the first thing running through your head

They believed him to be a suspect. When a suspect runs, guilt becomes assumed. Did the police overreact? Yes. To put them at 100% fault for this, though, is ridiculous.