This morning on the way to work I listened to "Electioneering". It was on an old mix tape I had made back in about 1997 or so and, damn was I loving it! It was so damn rocking, melodic and original-sounding.

In that moment I realized why I don't like most of their output.
They are just too damn self-consciously arty.

On a song like "Electioneering" (or even "Creep" put put you Radiohead fans off even more), they just rock the song out and their artistry is self-evident. They ARE a great band.
But ever since they realized that, they have just been trying too damn hard.

Don't get me wrong, pushing bounderies is a wonderful thing. But the BEatles felt it. Led Zeppelin felt it. U2 felt it (although they may have lot that feeling -- which explains their return to the basics). And these bands' explorations were a natural, organic part of their musical curiosity.

With Radiohead, I think they felt it during OK COmputer, got caught up with the adulation and then started to think too damn much about it. Now... they just can't seem to let it go.

One person's (admittedly outsider) perspective. And it's what I feel from the band, which is why I can respect them... but cannot seem to like them.

EDIT: Sadly, I think that Wilco (one of my favorite bands) is heading in that direction too.

Have you seen them on tour since OK Computer? I would argue that they seem to 'feel' most of the stuff from Kid A onward just as much.

And disagreed on Wilco. This is what Tweedy's "feeling" right now, and yes, it's gotten a lot denser, but seeing them live (same for radiohead from what I hear) really explains a lot. They still grin, they still get off up there.

Never seen them live, period.
And I admit that it is just opinion – and my perspective.
It's what I get from the music.
And really, isn't all that matters... what the listener gets from it?

Yes and no. There are always going to be some things out there that are harder to chew, like current radiohead / wilco. I don't personally make the effort anymore with radiohead, maybe I will again some day. But I do with wilco. Make any sense?

i listened to Amnesiac the other day, and had to turn it off because i didn't like any of the songs.


but i saw them live and it was inanley good.
and i'm not a huge fan of the band, particularly post Kid A.

but damn . . . they were just insane. every song was amazing.
so i agree, i'm sure they still feel it.


same deal with Wilco, A Ghost is Born bores me, but all the songs sound fantastic live.

jonny greenwood is the most intense live guitarist i've ever seen.

I am in wholehearted agreement with Todd's original statement...and have been saying something similar since Kid A came out, and since YHF came out from Wilco.

Zooropa is a great album.

i've never thought of Wilco heading the direction that Radiohead went after OK Computer. Now that i think of it, Todd makes sense with the parallel between the two. But, just seeing Wilco live within the last month, i can say they dont take themselves too seriously on stage. Tweedy was more delightful than imagined. As for Radiohead, i always thought they took themselves too seriously, but i haven't seen them.

I suppose, but sometimes it's easier to judge how you feel about music in a live setting, and the same goes for how the artist feels.

I agree that OK Computer was Radiohead's peak. I do think they try a little too hard to do something completely different every time and some of it gets lost on me. Still, they continue to put out great songs and very interesting music so I haven't gotten to where I can't listen to anything post OK Computer or Kid A or whatever. I still think they're a great band, I just don't think they'll ever top OK Computer for me.

I disagree on your Wilco point. I think Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is their best album to date and their progression is more natural like it was for the Beatles, U2, etc. than Radiohead's has been. I think A Ghost is Born is probably Wilco's weakest album to date but it's not so different from everything else they've done that I blame a direction they took that I don't like. I just don't think the song writing was as strong. If they spend a little more time on the next one and focus more on lyrics and less on being "jamy" I think Wilco can still put out a great album that sounds like what we expect from them.

Yep. I look back at older artists' catalogs of work, and I see times when the road got wierd for a bit, but it's part of what makes (in the end) an interesting body of work.

I think it's funny how different a person's perception of a piece of music can be from another. I really, really hate music that is pretentious, consciously attempting to be serious/arty and I've never really felt that vibe from Radiohead's later output, especially Kid A. The only thing I disliked on Amnesiac was Life in a Glasshouse. Even HTTT which has never gripped me seems to be a natural evolution, one they've been making since OK Computer. I just don't feel the songs on the last album were that memorable.

I did feel that A Ghost Is Born is a bit pretentious, most obviously, Less Than You Think. I hate stuff like that.

Would it be fair to say that you pretty much only like rock music, and they're mostly not playing rock music anymore?

Almost is right on about the live show.

I think it's a cop out to say it's just what you "feel" about the music when you're saying things like "they're trying too hard." A band really can't "try too hard" in a subjective sense, because that statement implies that there is a normative level at which a given band is "trying exactly hard enough," which is of course dumb.

I just think their songwriting quality has fallen off since OKC, just like I think Wilco's has since Summerteeth. At the same time the musicianship in both bands has improved and they've gotten more creative in the sudio.

I don't think those two things necessarily coincide in other cases, though.

I think you know that I don't "only like rock music".
And I see your point, oh debate team captain and you are correct that "trying too hard" is not possible in a subjective sense. But to these subjective ears, it sure sounds that way.

And --- with my own perception being all that I know --- that is "Why Radiohead Bothers Me".

Whether or not it is a conscious decision or not on their part, I hear the band (in my head) at rehearsals saying, "Where are we going to take it to now?" Just sounds self-conscious to me.

I respect the hell out of the band. I just don't enjoy listening to them too much. For the same reason many don't enjoy listening to "math rock". same exact paralell.

I side with PT and LooGAR on this one. Great parallel between the career trajectories of Radiohead and Wilco. Tweedy is brilliant, but tends to be his own worst enemy, in terms of getting in his own way (if that makes any sense).

Haq, is it possible (in yer opinion) for a band to take itself too seriously, or to "try to hard?" To let pushing the envelope take precidence over quality? (I ask in seriousness, btw. - really curious)

my head loves radiohead but my heart knows something isn't quite right.

Absolutely, and I think you could easily criticize Radiohead of this, but (and I'm not just trying to hold up logical hoops), it's necessarily an objective criticism. I mean, I'm sure there are bands that barely try at all and still turn out pretentious shit (I believe Ish would point to the Unicorns).

I think the thing about Radiohead is they are just past their peak, end of story.

Nothing to do with 'feel' or experimentation or anything else.

I guess I ask because if I were to close my eyes and imagine a band doing just that, that band would be a hell of a lot like radiohead. Whether I'm projecting it onto them or not, it seems an awful lot like an experiment, where they say "let's see if our fans will buy anything," and the next album will be made up entirely of vacuum cleaner noises and answering machine beeps. I exaggerate, but...

I don't think they're doing anything like that, and keep in mind that I don't really care for Amnesiac or HTTT. I think that they're sincere in what they're doing, but they've lost the direction, inspiration, etc. that they used to have.

Projecting all of this crap about them testing their fans and audience and what people will buy is bullshit. They just don'thave it any more. End of story.

I totally agree. Zooropa is the best album they have put out since Achtung Baby.