on a semi-related topic; just saw a pic of jack osbourne in the new RS and he actually looks pretty healthy and thin.

So there is hope, fatties!

Saw that too, and was quite surprised.

Yeah, they're totally polluting our once-proud master race.

I echo ayah's sentiments... it's a vicious cycle. I have a nephew who is around 12 now, and he's morbidly obese-- probably close to 200 lbs. and around 5'3". He was not always overweight, and neither was his mother, but due to a lot of bad juju (low self esteem, job loss, big moves, no dad around, etc., etc.), they both piled on the pounds eating cheap takeout pizza and yes, her indulging him with every sweet imaginable to make up for the fact that Dad wasn't around full-time. I worry about my nephew because I'm afraid if he doesn't lose the weight soon, he'll have it for the rest of his life, and his chance for adult-onset diabetes, heart problems and other ailments increases.

Depression is a huge factor. I was overweight for about 5 years at one point in my life because I felt so fucking sorry for myself that I'd eat anything to make myself feel better. Once the head gets right, it seems easier to see what needs to be done. But it's not an easy process.

edit: oops, another thing I was going to mention... it's definitely part of the "I deserve it" mentality that pervades the U.S. today. I mean, I know this sounds all preachy and shit, but my parents didn't take us to McDonald's every day-- it was a real treat, and we were lucky if we got to go once a month (we were lucky if we got to go out to dinner at all). Also, portion sizes are out of CONTROL here... what was once a large is now a small.

I'm trying to lose weight so I ditched McDonalds and started going to Subway which I figure must be healthier if your sensible about what you get in your sandwich.

Then I had one of my frequent Larry David moments when the guy the behind the counter said something (I can't even remember what it was now) and that was it! I can never go back to Subway ever again just because of this guys remark. And your probably thinking just go to an other Subway but I can't do that either. Because even although they make out all these places are the same they are clearly not. There is a hiearacy of Subways, or for that matter of McDonalds, in any city. For instance there are many Subways in Glasgow but the best one is the clearly the one of Great Western Road. The one I would go to because it's the best one. The one can't go into because that guy works there nd if I can't go there and I can't go to a LESSER Subway, so basically the entire Subway chain is as dead to me as the ham behind the sneeze guard.

If anything happens in the Finnieston Road McDonalds (the best McDonalds in Glasgow) I'm fucked if I ever want a Smarties McFlurry because the same principle applies. I can't go to a LESSER McDonalds!

is this a line from the godfather or the sopranos?

Excuse me. If I lift, I acknowledge the source. Ayah, having denigrated my originality, is now in the bad books.

What I was getting at is that too many parents miss the boat on what really impacts their child's life. All this bullshit about Thimerosal in vaccines leading to higher rates of autism, all the ADHD hoopla, aspartame, alar on the apples, or some other unsubstantiated malady du jour at the hands of some chemical or compound isn't nearly as detrimental to the child's life as a parent who is unable or unwilling to tell a child they don't need candy or they don't need McDonald's or don't need to sit and watch SpongeBob.

Too often they are unable or unwilling out of fear of damaging the poor kid's fragile self-esteem or feelings. These little shits need some hard and fast boundaries with consequences, rather than reasons and pleas for cooperation.

I hear this shit all the time: "Caleb, would you please put that back like Mommy asked you the last two times? Thank you."

Why is it that the parents address the kids with "please" and "thank you", but you would never hear those polite terms coming out of the little bastard's mouth when he asks for something. Shit is all backwards.

Of course, I was raised on the very firm "yes, sir/no, sir"; "yes, ma'am/no ma'am"; and "please/thank you/you're welcome" tenet.

like that's never happened before.
xo

You, sir, qualify for the "Stupidest Thing Read On Obner Today" Award.

It is also untrue, in every county whose laws I am familiar with.

Relax. It was meant in jest.

I guess I should've used some smiley icon to show that this was tongue-in-cheek. Next time, perhaps.

I thought you saw Jesus with a fork.

Or it could be the title for the live CD the White Stripes will put together from the tour for Get Behind Me Satan.

Slightly off subject, but I parents opposed to vaccination are stupid. If people actually saw the diseases the vaccines prevent I doubt many parents wouldn't have there kids immunised. Small risks are the cost of this though. These people are just lucky there's herd immunity.

My two cents as a self-qualified fatty:

Getting kids active early - I agree this is really important, and I think one problem Western culture has is here that exercise/activity can become synonomous with competitive sports (especially with boys). A lot of introverted and uncoordinated kids don't exercise because they don't enjoy consistenly getting picked last in kickball or being told by their peers or their gym teacher they're worthless because they don't run as fast or can't shoot a basket. They don't get an opportunity to enjoy a hike in the woods, a long bike ride, or a dance class (see Billy Elliott if you haven't yet; one of my faves).

Self-esteem - Dana's right on the mark here. Low self-esteem causes weight gain much more often than the other way around. I can eat better, and I can exercise more vigorously than walking ~30 miles a week, but mostly I don't because I don't think I'm worth it. When you feel good about yourself, desires for *insert favorite addiction here* plummet. The problem here is that anyone trying to build a kid's self-esteem by letting them do whatever they want is missing the point. I'm not calling for a return to corporal (sp?) punishment or yes-sir/yes-ma'am values like Cory might be, but I think there's a balance you can reach where you are encouraging and nuturing kids for being themselves regardless of societal/cultural expectations while still setting boundaries for appropriate behavior. Is it hard work? Yes. Welcome to parenthood.

Vaccinations - I've talked to an immunologist who is against vaccination. When one of her kids got sick, she would spread the germs around so they would all get sick at the same time. She would nurture all of them back to health. Hey, now they've all got antibodies! At some levels, vaccinations reinforce the idea that our bodies should be healthy all the time, and it doesn't work like that even with a healthy and sanitary lifestyle. Plus, when both parents are working, sick children become a huge inconvenience; they can't rearrange priorities to give the kids the extra attention needed. I think the rise of women in the workplace in the past fifty years has had the unfortunate consequence of downgrading motherhood to a part-time job (or, with maternity leaves, a temporary work assignment). Someone needs to be there (not necessarily watching over the shoulder, but being available) for the kid at all times whether it's a parent, relative, or trusted adult.

I think there is some sense to this. However, some diseases are a lot more dangerous than others, and vaccines are the best way to keep them under control. We let our kids get chickenpox at a young age instead of the vaccine, however I wouldn't do the same with smallpox.

I'm either immune to this naturally, or will be killed by it sometime when it finally catches up to me. That'd be an embarassing way to die.

I workout hard because I eat hard. Generally, that seems to keep things in balance.

Steve

Yes. And the people who bitch about tap water. Tap water in this country is safe and clean to the point of arrogance, considering water borne illnesses kill many people in other parts of the world every single day. We don't have to worry about clean water here, but we buy it in bottles because we think it's better for you. Bullshit. There was actually a piece in the NYT on this recently. To me, avoiding vaccinnations and slandering tap water is a more disgusting example of American arrogance than any foreign policy decisions.

Sketch:
Not corporal punishment or yes sir/no sir (my parents really loosened this on my 3 younger brothers, even to the point of the last two getting off scot free) per se, but a more defined set of rules with consequences. A five year old doesn't really want to know why he can't drive a car, he just needs to be told he can't.

I believe "Because I said so, and I'm the Mom," is sufficient reasoning in plenty of cases, especially with younger children. It's not a debate, it's a command. I see these hellions yanking shit off the shelves in grocery stores, and the parent just ignores it, or politely asks them to cease. Obviously asking don't work, or otherwise the kid would probably no better by now.

I think there is a number of parents who have blurred the line between parent & child to the point where the dynamic is worthless. It's not a partnership, it's an apprenticeship. Parents need to not only lay down the law definitively and swiftly, but they also need to establish a relationship wherein the child knows that just because they are dissappointed at their punishment now doesn't mean that the same parent will provide the guidance and wisdom to similiar missteps as well as challenging moral/ethical dilemmas in the future.

I think we are probably pretty close here, Colin. I thought your comment recently on prisons was pretty dead on. Kids (and prisoners) need not only punishment, but also reform and reinforcement. Without the reinforcement in other areas, the punishment will end up being in vain anyway.

Squirrgle:
My father will turn 52 in the fall and has never had chicken pox. For years when it went around, he would get real scarce, because I think chicken pox can get pretty nasty with adults. He was talking to a physician friend probably 8-10 years ago and somehow his lack of chicken pox experience came up. The doctor said that is is likely that he got it around the same time his sisters did, but didn't get a strong enough dose to actually break out, or only got a couple blisters that didn't cause any alarm. The antibodies still formed to prevent further infection, but he never realized he had ever contracted the disease. So you may be off the hook without ever knowing it.

I've been paying relatively close attention to the chickenpox issue since, like, 6 years old. In that time, there's no way I had any blisters and didn't know, and mom swears I didn't before that, so I can only take her word for it. I also recall a friend getting it at like age 7 or 8, and I was around him. But I've been told that very rarely, some people just happen to be immune. I hope it's one of the two, because yeah, it's suppose to really get nastier as you get older.

Chicken Pops.

Yes. This is the only way I rationalize my eating/drinking habits these days.

"Hey, I worked out and ran all week, I deserve this steak covered with cheese and these 18 beers"

"We don't have to worry about clean water here, but we buy it in bottles because we think it's better for you. Bullshit."

I buy it because it tastes better.