by The Clash the first and greatest credible rap by a white guy?

This is why I love the Clash. Forget about your feelings about Sandinista! or even "Magnificent Seven" as a song. This was 1980 folks. "Rappers Delight" had only come out the previous year and most of America had yet to even hear a rap song.

But Joe was always in tune with what was new on the streets and he wanted to do a rap and judged by what was being done in 1980 it's a completely credible attempt.

Allow me also to point out that this was 6 years before "Walk This Way" supposedly broke down the walls between rap and rock.

Steve

What about Blondie's Rapture. It's also from 1980.

It was also AFTER Blondie released "Rapture".
If you don't consider that a "credible" attempt, at least it was informed and knowledgeable. Note the refrence to "Fab Five Freddie".

I beat Todd to something? Has the student become the master?

Fair enough. Also, it got more exposure because of the video. I won't denigrate Ms. Harry. Brave attempt on their part too.

Steve

But I'll personally give extra credit to the clash for being un-american and giving it a swing so early, as opposed to a NY scenester like Blondie, for whom it wasn't quite as alien a concept.

You beat me to 2000 posts.
Easily.

It won't last - school starts next week. This is my last Hurrah.

I am celebrating by taking frequent catnaps on the floor.

Debbie Harry ain't no guy, though. It's true, I saw her naked in Videodrome.

http://www.thegasface.co.uk/

Yeah, but The Clash whored themselves to lots of non-rock styles. While it's not a horrible thing to explore stuff outside your genre, what the Clash did always struck me as pandering. I also think they butchered a lot of what they did. B.A.D. was much more effective--the Clash were a punk band (and a middle of the road one at that) who managed in later years to make some excellent power pop.

Ha! I actually thought about these 2 while I was writing my spiel. I know they weren't pre 1980 though.

Definitely better than Vanilla Ice!

Steve

I've got to disagree. I think the boys just truly wanted to try everything and granted they weren't always successful.

Nice to hear some appreciation for B.A.D though.

Steve

Was The Magnificent Seven really Joe's attempt at rap? I don't really hear it. I'd guess that it was more Jamaican dancehall (which of course was itself a huge influence on rap) influencing him.

And while Rapture was the biggest (maybe only) breakthrough hit of the disco infused postpunk, there was a hell of a lot of that stuff going on.

And I've got to disagree with Billz here. Clash did it much better than BAD. BAD hasn't held up with the years all that well for my ears.

The first credible attempt in fact did not come until Rush released "Roll the Bones" in 1991:

Jack -- relax.
Get busy with the facts.
No zodiacs or almanacs,
No maniacs in polyester slacks.
Just the facts.
Gonna kick some gluteus max.
It’s a parallax -- you dig?
You move around
The small gets big. it’s a rig.
It’s action -- reaction --
Random interaction.
So who’s afraid
Of a little abstraction?
Can’t get no satisfaction
From the facts?
You better run, homeboy --
A fact’s a fact
From nome to rome, boy.

What’s the deal? spin the wheel.
If the dice are hot -- take a shot.
Play your cards. show us what you got --
What you’re holding.
If the cards are cold,
Don’t go folding.
Lady luck is golden;
She favors the bold. that’s cold.
Stop throwing stones --
The night has a thousand saxophones.
So get out there and rock,
And roll the bones.
Get busy!

I recall hearing that, recoiling in terror, and skipping it every time. Looking at it on paper now, I cannot believe how truly awful it was.

I'm totally with you on the first two points, but will respectfully disagree on BAD. I find "This is..." and "No. 10 Upping" street to be solid to this day, even "Megatop Phoenix" has moments of brilliance. Conversely, most of "Sandinista" and "Combat Rock" I find to be unlistenable. The only post-LC work of Joe's that truly like is the "Love Kills" single.

The Clash were certainly aware of rap music from very early on through Don Letts.

The Clash were more or less based in New York (17 back-to-back shows on Broadway!) just about at the same time as rap music started to make a stir in artistic circles and they (along with Debbie Harry and Jon Lydon) were introduced to Fab Five Freddy and nascent rap scene by the aforementioned Letts.

Don Lett's points out that hip hop culture out that like a lot of the underground american scenes, took off pretty much straight away in Europe while it took a few years for most Americans to realise what was going on in their own backyard.

As for white guy rap, surely Malcolm McLaren was very astute in that regard. 'Buffalo Girls' was a hit on NY hip-hop radio because they thought he was a black guy!

Who knew Rush was the original Interpol???

Not arguing whether it was the first anything, but of late it's rocketed up the charts and has become my 2nd or 3rd fave Clash song, behind "Rudie Can't Fail" and dueling w/ "White Man..."
Jesus, I love that band.

"Italian mobster shoots a lobster"

Sublime.

I love Sandinista, I've never agreed with all the 'filler' comments. I think it's great and ambitious album.

"....seafood restaurant gets outta hand"

transcendent...dare we say..magnificent
truly a great lyric!

Geddy and rap just do not equate, even for this admittedly die-hard Rush fan. (And yes, that IS Geddy, not Neil as some people think. I've heard a pitch-corrrected version of this and there's no doubt it's Geddy.) This sounded dorky even in 1991, but the band had fun so who am I to judge? I still listen to the song, rap section included.