but at least I'm trying.

Okay, so I'm listening to Rancid's And Out Come The Wolves yesterday and a co-worker stops at my cube and makes this statement:

"That comes out in '79 and we'd all be talking about IT instead of fuckin' London Calling because it's the better album."

Questions:
Do you agree with my co-worker's statement?
Do you think my co-worker's mental health is in question?
Should a band be penalized as being derivative just because they were born too late?
If Rancid had been around in '79 would they have been able to make And Out Come The Wolves or was the influence of the Clash and others exactly what made it possible?
Are there any bands you can think of that were "beaten to the punch", but who's albums would be considered classics if they had just been born a bit earlier?

Whatever. Please discuss.

Steve

I probably listen to that Rancid disc twice as often as London Calling.

The "would they be able to make this album" is the pertinent question.

I love this album, I don't hear The Clash much in it. When I hear The Clash, all I hear is "Some Girls." Discuss.

And, this will be what I listen to at lunch, thanks Steve.

I think it's a moot point and a silly comment.

1. I do not agree in any way that it is the better album.

2. I don't think their mental health is in question- they have their opinion.

3. Absolutely not, Rancid's a good band as are many derivative sounding bands, sometimes the derivatives sound better but in this case not for me. ( I think Kid A is derivative of Talk Talk, but I like Kid A better).

4. You hit the nail on the head and I think the guys in Rancid would be the first to say the listened to the Clash first and were introduced to Ska & Dub through the Clash.

5. There could be a ton of these. Maybe Wilco becomes the seminal country rock band and Being There could have been regarded as highly as Sweetheart of the Rodeo. For that matter, maybe some of the Tupelo records could have been. I think the fact that it had been done already is what pushed Tweedy into a more experimental direction- tribute was paid and new directions were explored.


Great questions- great thread

Yeah, as a Clash fanatic I'm not supposed to like Rancid. In fact, the co-worker in question was probably just trying to irk me, but fuck the reason I was listening to it is because it's a kick ass record deriative or not.

Steve

Each one has one track I could do w/o ("Lover's Rock" on LC, "The Wars End" on ...And) but otherwise they're both pretty much flawless.
I agree that The Clash begat Rancid (among dozens of others) but if, somehow, you dropped "Wolves" in 1979 I think the impact would have been pretty significant.

But "Life Won't Wait"'s compactness makes it a much easier listen than "Sandinista!"

"Wolves" gets thrown on the stereo when I get home.
Thanks

You know, I have owned Life Won't Wait for probably 6-7 years now, and have probably ever listened to it once. I should probably rectify that, given my love for Out Come the Wolves.

And where the FUCK is Radcliffe on this one?

Dag yo! Get on the stick!
It's a great record. WAY more all over the place and there are some things that just don't work - "Wrongful Suspicion" sounds like it was produced by Insane Clown Posse.
But the variety is great more often than not and when it connects it totally effing wails.

Great. Now tonight has turned into a Rancid-a-thon.

i don't know if comparing the albums that specifically can hold water. First of all, "Wolves" i think came from the street punk scene (which albeit has it's roots in the '77 punk explosion) moreso than Clash's reggae/ska influence. If you recall, I believe the band themselves declared "Life Won't Wait" was supposed to Rancid's "London Calling" (though IMO didn't come close to reaching those heights). I think the ska in "Wolves" (i'll have to listen again) was really just very cleverly disguised poppy, catchy riffs more than "authentic" ska stuff, and that in part i believe is due to Rancid wanting to become a more accessible punk band like the Offspring and the Bosstones did that same year. One could also argue that Rancid (and their pre-Rancid incarnations Dance Hall Crashers/Downfall/Operation Ivy) were influenced by 2-tone as much as the Clash.

anyway and also, while i think the "beaten to the punch" question is interesting, it doesn't really apply here. mostly cause the punches are like 16 years apart.

dude... dude... "jimmy jazz"...

i have to say that i listen to out comes the wolves a hell of alot more than the clash.

... yes?
I think I get what you're implying Ms. A Princess, and I don't like it. Not one bit.

Lovers Rock>Jimmy Jazz

Also... It's strange that this topic came up. AOCTW has been an album I've been thinking of purchasing for some time. This thread convinced me to buy it. I shall soon be rawking out.

its 2005 .... if i had to put both albums side by side and choose 1....it woud be octw.....