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 Post subject: A Question for Dalen.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:36 pm 
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I know you're a Republican and a Bush supporter. Being a Democrat, I don't hold that against you.

But I was just wondering, how do you feel about gay marraige and abortion? I'm just curious.

I don't mean to call you out either. If you feel more comfortable PMing me, that's fine too.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:37 pm 
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i hate gays and all babies must die! NOW!!!!

check your PM's.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:45 pm 
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DALEN for PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:48 pm 
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Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?

For example, I am a pro-business, pro-death penalty Democrat.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:49 pm 
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OMG DO U SUPPORT JUDICIAL ACTIVISM?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:50 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?

For example, I am a pro-business, pro-death penalty Democrat.


Which raises the question, what makes you a republican or a democrat?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:52 pm 
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OPA! Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?

For example, I am a pro-business, pro-death penalty Democrat.


Which raises the question, what makes you a republican or a democrat?


hate gays & ted kennedy = republican
hate jesus & tom delay = democrat


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:53 pm 
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Borg166 Wrote:
OMG DO U SUPPORT JUDICIAL ACTIVISM?


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"Judicial activism is putting the public hair on the lip of the can of Coca-Cola your-damn-self".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:57 pm 
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OPA! Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?

For example, I am a pro-business, pro-death penalty Democrat.


Which raises the question, what makes you a republican or a democrat?


In the south (and especially Alabama and GA, of which I can speak to personally it goes like this) Race. Pure and simple. That may not be true for all Republicans (Chris's parents don't have a racist bone in their bodies) but the overall guiding factor in the party from the top down, from the beginning of the break in the Solid South is racism.

Then you add in things like Tort Reform, hating the Teacher's Union (and all other unions) and wanting to ram Jebus down everyone's throats, and you get Modern Southern Republicanism.

Oh, and strangely, The Dems in GA were much more pro business in practice than these damn ol Republicans are.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:04 pm 
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How Do You Tell a Democrat from a Republican?
by Tamim Ansary

What's the difference between the two major political parties? Some would say, "None." Third-party maven Ralph Nader claims they're all "Republicrats."

Then there's the other view. The two major parties, says conventional wisdom, represent enduring and opposing philosophies of government--liberal and conservative--two currents that go back to the beginning of the republic.

Let's just see about that
In the following list, which would you consider classic Democratic sentiments? Which are typical Republican stands?

[ ] People should take care of themselves, not rely on the government.
[ ] The government should help the poor and needy.
[ ] Government regulation stifles the economy.
[ ] America needs a big, powerful, active federal government.
[ ] The government can't solve social problems and shouldn't try.
[ ] The government must expand the rights of minority groups.
[ ] America must project military strength abroad.
[ ] The government should avoid war at any cost.

You're right--whatever you marked. Both parties have espoused all these positions at one time or another. Hey ...

Are Republicans against government regulation? Under Teddy Roosevelt, they practically invented it!
Are Democrats congenitally against war? I have 18 words for you: Vietnam, Korea, World War II, World War I, Mexican War, War of 1812--oh, and the Cold War.
Are Republicans soft on civil rights for African Americans? Well, there was that little matter of Lincoln (a Republican) ending slavery.
Okay, then, small government--surely that's a Republican concept. Right?
Well, actually ...

"That government is best which governs least."

So goes the motto usually attributed to Thomas Jefferson, founder of America's oldest political party--the Democratic Party.

At birth, incidentally, it was called the "Republican Party," and then the "Democratic-Republican Party," but Ralph Nader can stop smiling, because the Democratic-Republican Party didn't split in two to give us our modern parties. Today's Democrats trace directly back to the Democratic-Republicans, who simplified their name in the 1820s. Today's Republican Party was founded in 1854, by a coalition of groups opposed to slavery.


Ye olde Democrats and Republicans
Early Democrats believed the federal government had no legitimate role except to defend the borders, keep the peace, and negotiate with foreign powers. "Ya' wanna' road? Build one." That was their original attitude

How on earth did that party end up founding Social Security?

By the same token, look at earlier incarnations of the Republican Party. Teddy Roosevelt, that environmental all-star, added 25 million acres of wilderness to the public park system. How did his party end up pushing for oil drilling in the Alaskan Wilderness?

Moveable platforms
Sure the two major parties stand on their platforms, but their platforms have wheels. They can move. To where the votes are. At least twice, according to John Taylor, American history professor at Kentucky's Union College, the parties have flipped positions, adopting their rival's platform wholesale.

It happened after the War of 1812, for example, when the Democratic-Republicans suddenly decided the country needed a national bank and massive government-sponsored, domestic infrastructure projects, just as their rivals (the Federalists, at that point) had always clamored.

It happened again after 1912 when Democrat Woodrow Wilson suddenly embraced the entire program of the Roosevelt ("progressive") wing of the Republican Party.

In the 1840s, Democratic Party honcho John Louis O'Sullivan famously described the country's territorial expansion to the Pacific as "manifest destiny." Today, Republican "neoconservatives" celebrate spreading American values around the globe in much the same terms.

Look, it's not like the major parties start with core philosophies.

That may be true of startups and third parties, but each of the major parties is fundamentally an apparatus that exists for getting people elected. How it's used depends on who is operating the machinery at a given moment. That is, a party's programs reflect demographic realities as calculated by its current operatives.

And the underlying demographic picture keeps changing.

Demographics equals destiny
The Republicans were founded in opposition to slavery--which made them the party of the North--which was industrializing just then--so the Republican Party inevitably became that of the manufacturing interests, the captains of industry--which made them the party of (relative) big government … the party that built the railroads.

The Republican Party's antislavery roots also made it the party of evangelical Protestants--who formed the demographic basis of the abolitionist movement--and who overlapped with temperance activists and suffragettes--which made the Republican Party a standard-bearer for feminism at that time--

And so it goes.

New Democrats of ancient history
The Civil War left Democrats scrabbling for votes among defeated Southerners and disgruntled small farmers in the West, but the underlying demographic reality was changing. Tidal waves of new European immigrants were flooding the country. They couldn't go hack themselves rich new lives out of the untrammeled wilderness like earlier immigrants because everything worth trammeling had already been trammeled.

The Democratic Party turns a corner
Sometime between the presidential administrations of Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, the Democratic Party realized its richest pool of voters wasn't Nebraska farmers oppressed by the gold standard, but urban industrial workers, immigrants, and minorities, united in their desire for more money, shorter hours, better working conditions, and greater job security.

Big government, public works, high taxes, social welfare--these policies followed inevitably as the mechanisms the party needed to deliver the goods.

What now?
Today, the demographic patterns are changing again. The country that took to manufacturing between the Jefferson and Wilson administrations, left manufacturing behind between FDR and George W. Bush. The immigrant groups that put FDR in power are now fourth- or fifth-generation Americans--natives, in short. The grandchildren of struggling, urban assembly-line workers are middle-class suburbanites working as independent consultants. The great-grandchildren of immigrants who demanded a 40-hour week are working 60-hour weeks by choice as lawyers and software engineers.

Whole new immigrant populations, mostly Asians and Hispanics, have come to America in the last three-plus decades, but their often conservative social attitudes and historically rooted anti-Communism complicate their political loyalties. Today's low-end, hourly-wage workers are not industrial employees but restaurant help, data processors, nursing home orderlies, and such. Plus, globalization means that the marginal players in the economy who once swelled the Democratic Party's electoral base no longer live in America. Having no vote, they can't shape either party's platform.

What does all this mean?
To me, the two parties seem in flux. I'm saying, don't be too sure you know who the Democrats or Republicans are and what they stand for. These things change. And in the next decade or so, they surely will change, in ways that will make today's notions about Democrats and Republicans seem as quaint as Federalists and Whigs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:08 pm 
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most people in my family don't know much or care about policy, economics, or politics at all. they like rebublicans because they talk about God and Jesus. period.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:11 pm 
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A banksy fan is a republican?!...for shame.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:12 pm 
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My grandfather is a staunch Southern Baptist, but he hates both George W. Bush and Mike Huckabee.

Even better: he won't tell anyone why.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:13 pm 
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I haven't talked politics with the parents since I was about 19.

Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:14 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?

For example, I am a pro-business, pro-death penalty Democrat.


Not weird at all IMO. It's choosing the issues from anyside that you agree with.

I'm with your parents, but I don't go to church, nor do I worship jeebus.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:16 pm 
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I also don't feel the need to have my party label determine my viewpoint on specific issues. I have my own brain and try to use it as frequently as I can.

I've said it before, and I'm sure many would disagree, but I am in fact a registered Democrat since 1994, when I turned 18.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:17 pm 
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My dad's side of the family is republican and my mom's side supports democrats. We have a lot of, um, "fun" at family get-togethers when politics comes up during conversations.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:18 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?
Or perhaps it's just baby steps towards enlightenment.
Quote:
For example, I am a pro-euthenasia of felon businessmen.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:22 pm 
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Yail Bloor Wrote:
Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?

For example, I am a pro-business, pro-death penalty Democrat.


I'm this way too... although, the church-going has dwindled in recent years. 12 years of Catholic School will do that to you. I'm a registered Republican, though I have voted Democrat or Independent in the last few elections.

Pro-Choice and Pro-Gay Marriage shouldn't be political issues to begin with.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:32 pm 
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Dalen Wrote:
Yail Bloor Wrote:
Funny, my parents are hard core Repblicans (voting wise), go to church every Sunday, but both are pro-choice and pro-Gay marriage.

Is that weird or is it probably more mainstream then anything?

For example, I am a pro-business, pro-death penalty Democrat.


Not weird at all IMO. It's choosing the issues from anyside that you agree with.

I'm with your parents, but I don't go to church, nor do I worship jeebus.


A good friend of mine in this business says that No Matter what you believe, there is a member of Congress who fits it.
Pro Business, Pro-Choice, NRA Member? check
Anti-Tort Reform, Anti-Choice, Pro Gun Control?check

It's basically how you define government's main function. One of the things that SHOULD emerge from Katrina, if we had a functioning Democracy and Press Corps, is people should be asking themselves what they want from each level of government., not just fucking crying over who fucked what up. EVERYONE fucked up.

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Throughout his life, from childhood until death, he was beset by severe swings of mood. His depressions frequently encouraged, and were exacerbated by, his various vices. His character mixed a superficial Enlightenment sensibility for reason and taste with a genuine and somewhat Romantic love of the sublime and a propensity for occasionally puerile whimsy.
harry Wrote:
I understand that you, of all people, know this crisis and, in your own way, are working to address it. You, the madras-pantsed julip-sipping Southern cracker and me, the oldman hippie California fruit cake are brothers in the struggle to save our country.

FT Wrote:
LooGAR (the straw that stirs the drink)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:32 pm 
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Keyser Soze Wrote:
How Do You Tell a Democrat from a Republican?


Image

NSFW -- http://images.plus613.com/2300/pigfucker.jpeg

Edited by mod (sorry, Mark)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:48 pm 
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Eddie Basden Wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote:
How Do You Tell a Democrat from a Republican?


Image

NSFW - http://images.plus613.com/2300/pigfucker.jpeg


Do you even need to use birth-control if you're engaged in bestiality?

Can a human sperm penetrate a porcine ovum and produce an embryo?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:49 pm 
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im a libertarian socialist, which basically means im for very progressive policies with a libertarian economy. i find the party system in american politics to be counter productive, since there are only two parties to vote for (unless you happen to have another party's candidate running in your constituency, but they wont win) and both parties lend themselves too easily to the policies of the radicals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:08 am 
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Northern Soul Wrote:
im a libertarian socialist, which basically means im for very progressive policies with a libertarian economy. i find the party system in american politics to be counter productive, since there are only two parties to vote for (unless you happen to have another party's candidate running in your constituency, but they wont win) and both parties lend themselves too easily to the policies of the radicals.


Unfortunately, Libertarianism in America is usually only associated with the capitalist version you see in the US Libertarian Party. I'd say the closest party we have that follows anything resembling a libertarian socialist vision is the Green Party. I liked how the two types of libertarians (Cobb & Badnarik) got together and worked to get different ideas out there in 2004 even though they obviously disagreed with each other on many issues. Their debates were a lot more fun to watch than the ones between Kerry and Bush.

I would love it if US Presidential debates had at least 4 individuals on stage: a democrat, a republican, a green and a libertarian.

By the way, I have a lot of love for people involved with the US Libertarian Party even though I disagree with most of their views on economics. They, along with the Greens, take the Constitution seriously and believe in it unlike the two major parties.


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