I think the "certain aspects" would be named Reeves Gabrels. That man's guitar plays pure emotion. "Survive," off Hours, just kills me. Actually, the first half of that album is excellent. The second half . . . not so, but I still like it in general as an album.

No love for Heathen? I love this album. I don't consider myself a Bowie afficianado by any means - I'll admit it: the two-disc Best Of suits me just fine for most of his career - but Heathen is the Bowie I go back to time and time again. (I know I'm going to get slayed for that, but whatever.) I like Reality a lot, too, but it just doesn't reach as high as Heathen.

I enjoy his recent output (Earthlingk, Reality, Hours, Heathen, etc.) more than his dreck period (Tonight, Never Let Me Down Again, etc.).

I guess I'm the sole fan of Never Let Me Down in the entire world.

I used to have Never Let Me Down, but don't now, so I must not have liked it... also never listen to Tonight or Hours, don't have anything more recent but suspect him of, as we say raound here, getting the suck.

Tin Machine==A-ok by me.

Re: Earthling

I didn't give it much of a chance at first, not being a fan of electronica, but Bowie's live acoustic version of "Dead Man Walking" on the compilation Live From 6A: Late Night With Conan O'Brien proved there was actually a great song hiding under all the production. So now I love the Earthling version.

Warmed up to the rest of the album a bit more, though it's still no favorite.

I can honestly say there is no Bowie record i truly hate...there are ones that i dont like 1/10th as much as his better stuff, but even the crap ones have a song or two worth keeping the record for.

You would be VERY wrong.

he *is* getting old though...

one of my bowie favs. you must've stole his drugs.

I don't get the massive respect for Bowie. He's always been such a dilettante, sorta the male Madonna in that he's made a career of taking someone else's good idea and pretending he thought of it.

First, it was Anthony Newley. Whoops.

Then he wanted to rock, and lucked out by finding Mick Ronson, who gave his shitty-ass cabaret songs rock arrangements.

Then he fixated on Warhol's scene and Lou Reed. A sincere form of flattery indeed.

Then he decided Philly soul was the next trend. Whoops.

Then he sucked at the brainpan of Brian Eno and got all pretend avant-garde. Turns out that was his greatest guess, because the Low - Lodger period seems to be the root of his modern indie cred (in other words, and in Obner parlance: open garbage).

And since then he's been untethered, searching in vain for another good idea - or just an idea. Just watch the fun if we can somehow spark an Anthony Newley revival.

While that's an accurate cynics assessment of his long career, it doesn't capture any of the grandness of the actual songs that scrawny chameleon managed to crank out.

I don't care WHY an artist does what he does, only WHAT he winds up recording. The WHAT has been very remarkable.

- - I don't get the massive respect for Bowie. He's always been such a dilettante, sorta the male Madonna in that he's made a career of taking someone else's good idea and pretending he thought of it.

he doesn't claim they are his own, he's always up front about it. "hey this interest me, i'm going to give it a try." he describes himself as a tastefull theif.

- - Then he wanted to rock, and lucked out by finding Mick Ronson, who gave his shitty-ass cabaret songs rock arrangements.

lucked out? your going to slag him for working with other talented people?

- - -Then he fixated on Warhol's scene and Lou Reed. A sincere form of flattery indeed.

i don't understand what that means.

- - -Then he decided Philly soul was the next trend. Whoops.

and he came up with a few awesome songs that sound nothing like philly soul. whoops indeed.

- - - Then he sucked at the brainpan of Brian Eno and got all pretend avant-garde. Turns out that was his greatest guess, because the Low - Lodger period seems to be the root of his modern indie cred (in other words, and in Obner parlance: open garbage).

don't waste time thinking about indie cred, even as a joke.

i'm not even a big Bowie fan, i only like the hits.

Well, that's certainly one way to look at it -- negatively revitionistic though it may be. Another way to look at it is that he's taken something and gone with it, taken it to the next level, added his own secret ingredient, and made it something special. (Fans of Madonna would certainly argue something similar for her.) But what I like about Bowie -- and probably why he gets such respect -- is that when he starts to get popular, he deliberately shifts gears, changes direction, and makes the unpopular choice. In Tin Machine, he deliberately worked in a non-solo, ensemble environment. And it wasn't just out of respect for some guy on lead guitar using a vibrator to play that thing, it was because he eschewed the limelight, and because he knows that it's in the trenches where the interesting things happen, not out on the open road.

Probably an oversimplification also, but...what the L.

As in Mick lucked out with Keith, Paul lucked out with John, Roger lucked out with Pete, Bob lucked out with Jerry, Morrisey lucked out with Johnny... luck has every and nothing to do with nothing and everything.

And derivative? As in the Stones built a career on Muddy Waters et. al. Rock, by defintion, is derivative... although it might be kinder to say "grows out of..." "stands on the shoulders of giants..."

Although, as I think of it.... when Ziggy hit, it seemed something (literally) shiny and new... waking up from the hangover of the sixties. And his stage show in 1973 was unlike anything anyone had ever seen... of all the things I can think to call the freak, derivative is low on the list.