Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:11 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
andyfest Wrote:
I really don't see where it's the government's place to just ban it everywhere.


In many cases, this is a public referendum--not so much the gummint as it is the will of the people.

And it is the gummint's role to enact laws that preserve/protect people's freedom and well-being. Many argue that public smoking is a violation of the freedom and well-being of non-smokers. In this case, gummint is justified and correct in enacting such laws.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:12 pm 
Offline
"Weddings, Parties, Anything…"
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:12 pm
Posts: 988
Location: Seattle, WA
andyfest Wrote:
If you can't stand smoke, go to see any of the bands that you'd love to see live.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:12 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:04 pm
Posts: 9783
Location: NOLA
andyfest Wrote:
I don't understand how they can just universally ban smoking indoors. To me, it should be up to the establishment to decide if they want to permit smoking or not. I can see saying that the smoking section has to be completely closed off from the rest of the building or whatever but for the government to just say no smoking anywhere, regardless seems like an invasion on our rights.

I'm not a smoker and enjoy going into smoke free places and leaving not smelling like total hell but I really don't see where it's the government's place to just ban it everywhere. If you can't stand smoke, go to a place that doesn't allow smoking.


Because there is no such thing as a smoking section. You still breathe those toxins. And much like the government can control how clean a restrurant is as a "public health issue", they can control how clean the air is.

_________________
I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:13 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
druucifer Wrote:
and sorry, "it smells bad" isn't a valid reason to restrict my right to do something.


Actually, it is. If it's invasive, then it's a nuisance. There is precedent everywhere supporting laws that restrict public nuisance.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:16 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
druucifer Wrote:
i totally agree, thats just way above and beyond. you can make the argument that second hand smoke causes cancer in a small confined space (although thats not nearly as settled a fact as the anti smoking types make it out to be), but i'm not aware of any evidence anywhere that establishes you can get cancer from whiffs of second hand smoke on the street. seems like outside it diffuses so quickly and readily that it doesn't harm anyone. and sorry, "it smells bad" isn't a valid reason to restrict my right to do something.


I agree with this. I might be more open to bans on the basis of nuisance if we start writing citations to those people who park their fatass right in the middle of the narrow isles at Trader Joe's.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Last edited by Elvis Fu on Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:16 pm 
Offline
"Weddings, Parties, Anything…"

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:50 pm
Posts: 853
Location: lawrencekansas
Gobblezebub Wrote:
druucifer Wrote:
and sorry, "it smells bad" isn't a valid reason to restrict my right to do something.


Actually, it is. If it's invasive, then it's a nuisance. There is precedent everywhere supporting laws that restrict public nuisance.


so what, now we can restrict anything that smells bad? i have a very nice vietnamese family who lives in the apartment underneath me, who cooks food that while i'm sure is delicious, smells like complete ass to any passersby. should there be a ban against cooking smelly food? i've been next to guys who smell awful, should they be required to wear deoderant? absent the health justification, i think thats a pretty thin reason for a law.

_________________
"who believe any mess they read up on a message board"
--mf doom


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:17 pm 
Offline
Whiskey Tango
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:08 pm
Posts: 21753
Location: REDLANDS
Kabob Wrote:

But we shouldn't have to endure an intake of smoke while walking down the sidewalk... WE shouldn't have to move when the guy at the bus stop decides to light up.. WE shouldn't have to move because that asshole is upwind of us and is oblivious to the fact... so on and so on. If you want to smoke, smoke in your home. And to the parents who smoke... WTF?!?!


So by this rationale, there should be a ban on BO as well?

When they banned smoking in my town, they gave an exemption to bars that wanted to keep smoking. Nobody goes to bars where you can't smoke.

_________________
"To keep you is no benefit. To destroy you is no loss."


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:18 pm 
Offline
Whiskey Tango
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:08 pm
Posts: 21753
Location: REDLANDS
Gobblezebub Wrote:
druucifer Wrote:
and sorry, "it smells bad" isn't a valid reason to restrict my right to do something.


Actually, it is. If it's invasive, then it's a nuisance. There is precedent everywhere supporting laws that restrict public nuisance.


This from the alleged libertarian.

Just more laws, man.

_________________
"To keep you is no benefit. To destroy you is no loss."


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:19 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
oldbullee Wrote:
You still breathe those toxins.


…while inhaling chili cheese fries with bacon and sour cream.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:19 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:17 pm
Posts: 10827
Location: Nashville
I'm a smoker and I don't really mind going outside to smoke. I'm suprised it took this long in WA.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:20 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
How come we don't weep for the tobacco farmer who is put out of business?

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:20 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
Yailvon Bloorsdale Wrote:
Gobblezebub Wrote:
druucifer Wrote:
and sorry, "it smells bad" isn't a valid reason to restrict my right to do something.


Actually, it is. If it's invasive, then it's a nuisance. There is precedent everywhere supporting laws that restrict public nuisance.


This from the alleged libertarian.

Just more laws, man.


Nope, just more protection of the rights of individuals. I have a right not to be poisoned, you don't have a right to smoke. Libertarian <> Anarchist.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:21 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
Elvis Fu Wrote:
How come we don't weep for the tobacco farmer who is put out of business?


Al Gore?


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:21 pm 
Offline
Failed Reunion
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 4401
If you can't wait 2-3 fucking hours to have a smoke, jesus fucking christ


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:23 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:04 pm
Posts: 9783
Location: NOLA
Elvis Fu Wrote:
oldbullee Wrote:
You still breathe those toxins.


…while inhaling chili cheese fries with bacon and sour cream.


I prefer dying of diabetes or heart disease to lung cancer!

_________________
I tried to find somebody of that sort that I could like that nobody else did - because everybody would adopt his group, and his group would be _it_; someone weird like Captain Beefheart. It's no different now - people trying to outdo ! each other in extremes. There are people who like X, and there are people who say X are wimps; they like Black Flag.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:27 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:31 pm
Posts: 11094
Location: moving up country
discostu Wrote:
I'm a smoker and I don't really mind going outside to smoke. I'm suprised it took this long in WA.

i think you're missing the point here. they're proposing that you won't be allowed to go outside to smoke.

_________________
Image


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:34 pm 
Offline
TEH MACHINE
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:28 pm
Posts: 16684
Location: Jiggin' for Yanks
Kabob Wrote:
DumpJack Wrote:
We're outside for fuck's sake! You got what you wanted, assholes.


But we shouldn't have to endure an intake of smoke while walking down the sidewalk... WE shouldn't have to move when the guy at the bus stop decides to light up.. WE shouldn't have to move because that asshole is upwind of us and is oblivious to the fact... so on and so on. If you want to smoke, smoke in your home.


Piss off, if you're so fucking sensitive to the minor annoyance of breathing or sniffing some tobacco smoke that's actively dissipating upon exhalation as you pass by, there's no fucking pleasing you. What about the goddamn exhaust fumes from cars, or BO from the shuffling bum, or the shitty Indian restaurant, or the fucking factory spewing god knows what into the air? Ban 'em all?

_________________
All I can say is, go on and bleed.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:39 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
Most states do, in fact, control emissions from automobiles and factories.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:47 pm 
Offline
frostingspoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 15260
Location: Raised on bread and bologna.
DumpJack Wrote:
Kabob Wrote:
DumpJack Wrote:
We're outside for fuck's sake! You got what you wanted, assholes.


But we shouldn't have to endure an intake of smoke while walking down the sidewalk... WE shouldn't have to move when the guy at the bus stop decides to light up.. WE shouldn't have to move because that asshole is upwind of us and is oblivious to the fact... so on and so on. If you want to smoke, smoke in your home.


Piss off, if you're so fucking sensitive to the minor annoyance of breathing or sniffing some tobacco smoke that's actively dissipating upon exhalation as you pass by, there's no fucking pleasing you. What about the goddamn exhaust fumes from cars, or BO from the shuffling bum, or the shitty Indian restaurant, or the fucking factory spewing god knows what into the air? Ban 'em all?


Don't forget paper mills.

_________________
A poet and philosopher, Mr. Marcus is married and is a proud parent.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:51 pm 
Offline
TEH MACHINE
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:28 pm
Posts: 16684
Location: Jiggin' for Yanks
Gobblezebub Wrote:
Most states do, in fact, control emissions from automobiles and factories.


Riiight. So aside from those terrible smokers, you generally stroll down the street breathing fresh, clean unpolluted air. I find that difficult to believe.

_________________
All I can say is, go on and bleed.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:42 pm 
Offline
The Listerine Queen
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12677
Location: vermont
Vermont's state-wide smoking ban has been in effect since September. It's nice to not have to deal with the smoke in the bars, but everyone I know is a smoker and I find myself standing outside with them all of the time anyway.

_________________
i haven't heard of that


Back to top
 Profile YIM 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:17 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:55 am
Posts: 8110
Location: chicago
Gobblezebub Wrote:
druucifer Wrote:
and sorry, "it smells bad" isn't a valid reason to restrict my right to do something.


Actually, it is. If it's invasive, then it's a nuisance. There is precedent everywhere supporting laws that restrict public nuisance.


might as well ban hippies

_________________
[quote="paper"]listen to robotboy.[/quote]


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:19 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:55 am
Posts: 8110
Location: chicago
Gobblezebub Wrote:
you don't have a right to smoke.


wait what?

_________________
[quote="paper"]listen to robotboy.[/quote]


Back to top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:28 pm 
Offline
Queen of Obner

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:24 pm
Posts: 15259
Location: El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles
DumpJack Wrote:
Kabob Wrote:
DumpJack Wrote:
We're outside for fuck's sake! You got what you wanted, assholes.


But we shouldn't have to endure an intake of smoke while walking down the sidewalk... WE shouldn't have to move when the guy at the bus stop decides to light up.. WE shouldn't have to move because that asshole is upwind of us and is oblivious to the fact... so on and so on. If you want to smoke, smoke in your home.


Piss off, if you're so fucking sensitive to the minor annoyance of breathing or sniffing some tobacco smoke that's actively dissipating upon exhalation as you pass by, there's no fucking pleasing you. What about the goddamn exhaust fumes from cars, or BO from the shuffling bum, or the shitty Indian restaurant, or the fucking factory spewing god knows what into the air? Ban 'em all?

Being allergic to smoke, that's what I have to do. If I'm standing in line, I have no problem telling the person who lights up next to me to step out of the line while he/she smokes. If they object (it's rarely happened), then, I'll ask someone to save my place in line and I'll stand away while they finish their smoke.

Sorry to say, but smokers ruin my night. I go into the bar/club coughing, go home coughing and wake up with a sore throat the next day. Years of being a second-hand smoker (Pop smoked) abused my lungs. :(


Back to top
 Profile YIM 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:34 pm 
Offline
Go Platinum

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:26 pm
Posts: 6459
robotboy Wrote:
Gobblezebub Wrote:
you don't have a right to smoke.


wait what?


Allow me to re-phrase, my right not to be poisoned trumps your right to exercise the freedom to smoke. If your smoking weren't offensive, there would be no problem. Why is this so difficult for folks to wrap their heads around? There are laws prohibiting public drunkeness, public lewdness, excessive noise...prohibition of smoking in a public place is no different.


Back to top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ] 

Board index : Music Talk : Rock/Pop

Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Style by Midnight Phoenix & N.Design Studio
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.