so the almighty civil infraction will stop the people who would kick your ass for asking them to put out a smoke?

You know, TicketBastard used this same excuse to deny monopoly charges, but I disagree: I have zero control over which venues the bands I want to see play at, but I do have an iota of control over who gets a licquor license (I.E. voting -> board -> license-> etc.). So it may not be fully public, it may not be fully private, but it's within my jurisdiction, so yes, I get to say whether or not it's a smoking establishment or not.

That's fair. My point is that the ills caused by excessive alcohol consumption are all prohibited by law. Further, it is possible to consume alcohol without the negative behavior you describe.

It is not possible to smoke a cigarette without comitting the negative behavior. I don't advocate the prohibition of tobacco, I don't support a pub ban--I believe private establishments should be allowed to manage themselves and set their own private policies. As a consumer, I will avoid establishments where smoking is allowed, and on the occasions that I choose to endure the smoke, I do so uncomplainingly.

However, smoking in public is an entirely different issue for the myriad of arguments already presented.

As for "i don't like it so you shouldn't do it", I don't think that's in play at all. I don't like that anyone listens to Mariah Carey, however I don't want to ban anyone from it. I do want them prohibited from playing it in public where I can't avoid hearing it.

fair enough, its nice to have a rational debate with someone about this. and i would actually be all for the situation you describe--i'd happily give up smoking outdoors if there were still bars where i could light up. and i didn't mean that bit about banning smoking because people don't like it as a jab at you personally, but i do think it applies to some of the more zealous anti smoking people.

Every time you say this(and you've said it multiple times on multiple boards) I fight the urge to want to hit you over the head with something.

Just because YOU were able to quit cold turkey knowing there was a carton still sitting in your freezer doesn't mean everyone else is going to have it that easy.

IN FACT, it's been proven OTHERWISE for the majority of those trying to quit.

I had three setback in the first two months that I quit. Well, three cigs, each one was a different occaison. It's been 4 months total(longest I've quit for without having been pregnant or having had given birth-so for three years and 8 mos I didn't have one) and two months total that I haven't had even one. It was a bitch and being around others who smoked was even worse.

Hell, I didn't even drink the first couple weeks because my cravings were always the worst when I drank.

But now I"m happy I did, and the smell of smoke makes me nauseous. I'm happy as hell for the inside bans and most of the outdoor.

When we were in NY, I thought it was clever of the club we were at to have an outdoor patio as a designated smoking area. It kept people from hanging in front, and it was large enough that non-smokers and smokers could mingle peacefully. I think that's a smarter way to go elsewhere.

haha, stupid smokers.
If you really want to quit, send me all your cigarette money so you can't buy them.

Is Ohio ever going to ban smoking? I doubt that it will happen soon, as we are still a Republican state.

Hey Jen, just pretend you are pregnant all the time. You still are the mother of Charlie, and you should want to be around as long as poosible for his sake.

I'll go ahead and hit myself over my head for you.

I dont really see what one has to do with the other..............

I understand you feel passionately about this, Jen, but we will agree to disagree. Aggravating as it may be to you, I feel as though those who cannot quit are just not trying hard enough.

My exact reason for quitting, he hated that I smoked. Husband and I both did at same time so it's been a tiny bit easier, that and we want to get pregnant sometime soon. Good incentives.

I may not agree with Spade Kitty too often but I totally back him up on this. I shouldn't have to inhale your bullshit because you're too weak to quit a nasty habit. Die.

:rawk:

To any of the bars that've said they'll lose business b/c smokers will go elsewhere, it's bullshit coz most of the places that've banned smoking around here still do shit tons of business.

The only negative I have to smokers being sent outside to smoke is that I have to sit at the table by myself while everyone runs outside to puff.

I'm not against what he's saying about quitting Chris, I totally back that up. I just don't back him up with how he says it's super easy to go cold turkey.

I'm not saying one should keep smoking, I'm just saying that sometimes people need the patch etc to quit, cold turkey isn't for everyone, and he's saying people should be able to do it without help.

No, I'm not. You can do it however you want. Help? It's out there. Get it. Counseling? Sure. Is it addictive? Absolutely. But compared to other obstacles I've faced in my life, when I really sat down and decided to do this, I did it.

And you want to smoke? I got no problem with that. Go ahead. You've accepted the consequences? Godspeed. Smoke 80 packs a day if you can. I don't want it near me, that's all.

What aggravates me is people like my friend in college who would quit literally every day and start smoking again every night. The self-loathing and obsession sickens me with people who are constantly "trying"

as Yoda says, "do or do not, there is no try"

or something like that

Quitting smoking is easy, just stop doing it, like setting hobos on fire or taking home drunk chicks. life is full of choices.

and cigarettes aren't going anywhere, the tax benefits and profits are too high. taking the argument any further is retarded.

You first.

Please.

You're just pissy because hairy assholes don't come in convenient packs of twenty.

And if being a nuisance were criminal, your ass woulda fried in Sing Sing some time ago.

I see most of the anti-smoking arguments focus on second hand smoke. I'm curious if anyone actually knows if occasional second hand smoke in an outdoor area like the bans seem to be covering is actually any more harmful than say the car exhaust we all breath when outside or the smog in an average city or any other host of things we breath in on a daily basis.

In know regular indoor exposure to second hand smoke is harmful, but is it at all possible that we are overstating the health concerns from enhaling the once in a blue moon puff of second hand smoke that these outdoor bans are likely protecting people from? If anyone has any information on this, I'd actually be interested.

I may very well be wrong, but it just looks to me like more than the health concerns, banning smoking in outdoor areas is more likely to be just because the smell or whatever bothers some folks.

I'm allergic to cigarette smoke.

And I don't support the bans.

I love freedom too much. If I compromise that to ban smoking, what happens when something I do is under the gun?

Having said that, I hate smokers, and when I worked in a restaurant I was sure to spit in their food and spill stuff on them. They're going to make me inhale gross stuff and make me stink, I'll do the same to them.

Like spitting in customers' food?

Quitting wasn't easy. It was difficult. but it was something that had to be done and I did it. I don't agree that it's always easy, but it's always doable.

I don't want laws piling up about smoking. I just want one: my right to taser anyone who insists on blowing it right in my face. There should be a special Smoke-Asshole Taser on the market for that purpose. Afterwards, no hard feelings, just smoke a few feet away from my face or the taser comes out again.

popular thread, I better post in it...

tobacco is wacko, am I right kids.

Good job, paper.